Newbie to Power Can someone help me set up PP correctly

[drashkum]

Hi Iam from india, i am a newbie to Powermeter and Training peaks. I had recently got a Ant+ only Powerpod from my friend who has been using it here before who had switched over to DFPM now. I have a roadbike Merida Ride 500 with TT Bars and a Garmin 520 with magnetless Cadence ( on crank) and Speed sensor ( On rear wheel) and HRM. i have mounted garmin on one side and the PP on the other side of the stem as shown in the below pic

IMG_20161015_074159.jpg (348.26 KiB) Viewed 17789 times

I have tried using issac software and tried to erase all data first and tried to " setup newton" and created a profile as far as i know and the issac did send the profile to newton.

Today morning according to the manual. i paired up the speed sensor to PP by waking up the sensor and long press on PP and it paired. I also Paired up Garmin 520 and PP and it got connected

After this it went haywire

I did a calibration ride of 25kms and it did go from 1 to 100w and got calibrated. After that i got the Watts reading ( 3s smoothening on garmin) too. Now these are the problems im facing

1. I had custom zones according to my coach input at Training peaks in my garmin. Pairing the powermeter had messed the zones and the HR zones were totally wrong.
2. There was a peak in power which showed 2434 W and then it settled down to 100-200 ish watts. I dont know where it came from and i dont know if the other watts were correct
3. Despite me doing a 31.3kmph average over 25kms and and with a average HR of 162 my TSS in Training peaks was only 19 and my IF was 50
TSS / IF/ NP / Calories burnt were all wrong

Screenshot_20161015-083436.jpg (184.83 KiB) Viewed 17789 times

Here is the file from PP

iBike_10_15_2016_0525_15_Miles.ibr

(129.25 KiB) Downloaded 419 times

I dont know if my PP is calibrated properly now.

Can a factory reset and starting from scratch one give me better results?

Can someone please help me in setting up the powerpod to get optimal results? I am a newbie to powermeter and i want to set it up right way. Kindly please help me


Thank you
Ashwin

[Velocomp]

Was this a solo ride or did you do drafting?

Your cadence and HR sensors did not pair. You need to spin the crank of your cadence sensor backwards about 5 times before pairing; it takes a long time to wake up. Wet your HR strap before attaching it, so that you're sure it is on. Spin your speed wheel, then do a new pairing.

We can fix the other issues after I hear your response about drafting.

[drashkum]

Was this a solo ride or did you do drafting?

Your cadence and HR sensors did not pair. You need to spin the crank of your cadence sensor backwards about 5 times before pairing; it takes a long time to wake up. Wet your HR strap before attaching it, so that you're sure it is on. Spin your speed wheel, then do a new pairing.

We can fix the other issues after I hear your response about drafting.

It is a solo ride i did not draft at all... May be i drafted a few motorised vehicles like busses here n there...not a group ride kind of drafting

My Cadence sensor is a separate magnetless garmin sensor not a combi speed/cadence sensor so since it was not listed in the instructions that i should pair cadence sensor i did not pair it. should i do that? and Since HR was optional it was not paired....Ill do that rightaway

Again a noob question ....if i pair my ant+ cadence sensor and my speed sensor to PP, can the sensor transmit real time cadence and speed data to garmin also at the same time so that i can see the real time cadence reading and the speed data on my garmin too? sorry if it is a very stupid question....

Secondly my wind data too says i rode all along in tailwinds which was not. and because of which my watts are so low kindly advice how to correct other things?
and in beginning of the ride while calibration it shows i rode in a 25% slope whic was not the case as i rode on a flat terrain. does that happen while calibrating?

kindly help me from starting from scratch one...should i do a factory reset and start again

1.Factory reset, create a new profile ( my bike weight is 8.6kgs and my weight is 80kgs) How much should i add extra for the bottle cages and saddlebags and bottle?. is there a option to see every detail in issac in metric as im used to everything in Kgs and KMs. Kindly let me know how to change that too...
2. Pairing Speed sensor, pairing cadence sensor , pairing HR, Pairing Headunit
3. Calibration - Please advice i have to do a compulsary out and back ride or just a straight ride pls. and does the calibration ride have to be a separate ride than the regular rides or can calibration start at the start of regular ride and thereby i can continue my ride.


Im a total noob in this. please help. Thankyou

[Velocomp]

No worries:

1) I used the "File/Combine-Split File at Cursor" command to get rid of the first 5 minutes, where PP was calibrating itself.

2) I used the "Analyze/Check Calibration" command to correct your wind settings. The constant tail wind was caused by an incorrect setting. The tweaked profile is located in the Edit/Edit Profiles menu

3) I changed the CdA of your profile from 0.359 (road bike) to 0.27 (TT bike)

4) I used the command "Tools/Switch Profiles after the ride" to see how your ride looks with all the correct parameters.

5) Modified profile and ride file are attached. Load the profile into your PP and you should be ready to go (the next ride may take 8 minutes for PP to readjust itself).

[drashkum]

No worries:

1) I used the "File/Combine-Split File at Cursor" command to get rid of the first 5 minutes, where PP was calibrating itself.

2) I used the "Analyze/Check Calibration" command to correct your wind settings. The constant tail wind was caused by an incorrect setting. The tweaked profile is located in the Edit/Edit Profiles menu

3) I changed the CdA of your profile from 0.359 (road bike) to 0.27 (TT bike)

4) I used the command "Tools/Switch Profiles after the ride" to see how your ride looks with all the correct parameters.

5) Modified profile and ride file are attached. Load the profile into your PP and you should be ready to go (the next ride may take 8 minutes for PP to readjust itself).

Thank you for editing the ride file...It now looks ok
I have a few questions though

1. You have edited CdA to 0.27 even though I havent used the TT bar for the ride and i have rode only on hoods, May i know why is it so?
2

Capture2.JPG (80.34 KiB) Viewed 17753 times

I saw you commenting that wind scaling for handlebar mounted PP is 1.4 whereas in the profile you have sent me "14/10/16 tweaked" the wind scaling is 3.061. may i know why? just that i want to understand the whole thing thats why asking you.

3. I have to import this drashkum.ibp through edit profile and then send it using send to device tab on the same page? should i do this after doing a factory reset?

4. Just to be sure i asking you this , I need to pair all the sensors and the head unit and do a calibration ride separately? or just do a ride like yesterday where as you said the first 8 mins the PP will calibrate?
5.Last one , If iam going to remove the aerobar what changes to the profile should i do? and if i am going to use a Garmin/ Gopro combi front mount on the handle bar what changes should be done?

Thanks for the quick reply

Drashkum

[Velocomp]

Your PP is mounted on a pretty crowded cockpit, so I think it is getting a bit less wind than usual. This is nothing to be worried about.

I thought you were riding with your TT bike setup; if not, use the attached profile, which now has a CdA of 0.359

Yes, you import the profile, then click the Send to Device button on the Edit Profiles page. Your PP will be updated with the correct profile. There is no need to do a factory reset before or after the profile change.

Yes, you can do a PP pairing with all sensors awake. Both your Garmin and your PP will then record the data separately.

After sending the new profile, and pairing the sensors, just ride. Your PP will self-calibrate as needed.

If you remove the aero bars then do an out and back ride and check the wind with the Tools/Check Calibration feature.

If you use the combo mount you should repeat the above Check Calibration step.

[drashkum]

Your PP is mounted on a pretty crowded cockpit, so I think it is getting a bit less wind than usual. This is nothing to be worried about.

I thought you were riding with your TT bike setup; if not, use the attached profile, which now has a CdA of 0.359

Yes, you import the profile, then click the Send to Device button on the Edit Profiles page. Your PP will be updated with the correct profile. There is no need to do a factory reset before or after the profile change.

Yes, you can do a PP pairing with all sensors awake. Both your Garmin and your PP will then record the data separately.

After sending the new profile, and pairing the sensors, just ride. Your PP will self-calibrate as needed.

If you remove the aero bars then do an out and back ride and check the wind with the Tools/Check Calibration feature.

If you use the combo mount you should repeat the above Check Calibration step.

The bike was loaded with TT set up Aerobars but just that i didnt choose to use it. Thanks for the update
Ill do a Ride today and get back with the newer ride file. After everything falls in place my coach has instructed me to do a FTP and Vo2 max test, so im just waiting for it

Yes it is a crowded cockpit. Will it serve the PP good if i remove the aerobars for now?. Anyhow i dont have a TT scheduled in next couple a months. Just the training for next 2 months

Thanks for a the patient reply Mr.Hamann.....This is why we choose to buy a powerpod over others single crank powermeters. The community and the support is so good. I really appreciate your effort to reach out and help each and every powerpod owner across the world to better your product.

Thanks a lot

Drashkum

[Velocomp]

For now, I would keep the TT bars on. Do a few rides so you get used to things. Afterwards you can try removing the bars, though this may require a recalibration.

Post your next ride file!

[drashkum]

Hi i rode with the new settings

Before i post the file i would like to give you more info on the ride and other details

I loaded the CdA359 bike profile and paired my HRM, Cadence, Speed sensors and Re- Paired my garmin to the PP and started the ride.
It did not calibrate as you told as i could not see power going up from 1 to 100w in my garmin, even though i had removed the PP from the mount to sync yesterday. it gave my power output directly at the start of the ride

It was a Active recovery ride with just Zone 1 and Zone 2 cruising based on my HRM ( Zone 1- 116-147BPM, Zone 2 148-160BPM) and i did not draft anyone, it was a solo ride where i rode only on hoods, not even drops. My bike still had aerobars mounted on it though i did not use it.

I now feel it is overestimating my power a bit more , im not sure. I have enclosed the ride file, downloading it from the PP without removing it from the bike for your opinion. kindly let me know what i have to do

Drashkum

Attachment :

iBike_08_18_2016_1441_15_Miles.ibr

(307.82 KiB) Downloaded 355 times

[chance17]

I will just add that when it recalabrates its not going to start from 0 and go to 100... Its going to still show power numbers as usual but may be way off for around 8 minutes and then will settle down to the correct number.Thats what recalabrate means in this instance...It will continue to recalibrate every ride unless you are sure to put the powerpod in the EXACT location it was in the previous ride...So be sure to do that or your numbers will be off for 8 minutes which then throws off your average for the ride unless you take off the first 8 minutes in isaac which I dont like to do because I want my whole ride included.

[drashkum]

I will just add that when it recalabrates its not going to start from 0 and go to 100... Its going to still show power numbers as usual but may be way off for around 8 minutes and then will settle down to the correct number.Thats what recalabrate means in this instance...It will continue to recalibrate every ride unless you are sure to put the powerpod in the EXACT location it was in the previous ride...So be sure to do that or your numbers will be off for 8 minutes which then throws off your average for the ride unless you take off the first 8 minutes in isaac which I dont like to do because I want my whole ride included.

Oh ok...but the Isaac power graph doesn't even look like it has recalibrated

Is the Watt and other data ok in the latest bike ride info or should the settings be tweaked again?

Kindly let me know

Drashkum

[Velocomp]

Your ride file looks perfect.

For the first 8 minutes your watts were slightly low, while PP recalibrated itself.

Nothing needs tweaking

[drashkum]

Your ride file looks perfect.

For the first 8 minutes your watts were slightly low, while PP recalibrated itself.

Nothing needs tweaking

Wow. Thank you...Looks like I'm ready for FTP n VO2max test then...

[drashkum]

Things didnt go smooth today.
I started the ride today for FTP assesment and for close to 20 mins i didnt not get power values from PP to garmin. Even before start of ride I spun the wheel and cranked manually to see the symbols of cadence, speed n HRM on Garmin an then connected PP to Garmin. PP also showed stable green light. No power values came though. And green light too went off and there was no light on pp. on pressing PP button each time it was stable green light. I thought something was wrong and had to stop my ride 2 times and i tried to re pair my sensors and garmin again and still in the final ride for 10 mins i didnt get power values and all of a sudden the power values show up on the garmin and from there it was showing for full ride....Any idea on this weird behaviour?

I am enclosing 3 ride files here first 2 are ones where power values dont show up at all where i had to stop and repair the garmin and 3 one is 34km ride where after 10mins powervalues show up in issac. Still the wind info says i predominantly rode in tailwind which is not the case. It was a solo ride to estimate FTP and i rode only on hoods of my bike
Kindly Please help me

iBike_10_19_2016_0506_0_km.ibr

(13.58 KiB) Downloaded 386 times

This one is from where i started and then stopped to check why power was not shown

iBike_08_18_2016_0000_0_km.ibr

(16.44 KiB) Downloaded 376 times

This one again the power did not show up despite reset by holding 10sec the button

iBike_08_18_2016_0001_34_km.ibr

(196.34 KiB) Downloaded 374 times

Third one i again reset and paired the sensors again but still power didnt show up on garmin and down the line after i rode for 10 mins the power abruptly shows up. I don't think it was recalibration get as last time it showed me power on recalberation. This time it was no power

I did a fast ride to estimate my FTP for 20 mins after the power showed up and i dint know how accurate it is after all this fiasco

Can someone help me on this weird behaviour

Drashkum

[drashkum]

Mr Hamann and others can you please help me out with this.....I'm still not able to take a FTP and VO2 max test because of this....please help me

[Velocomp]

Patience is what is needed here. Your PP recalibrates itself during the first 8 minutes of each ride.

Your "0km" ride files show zero power for the first 8 minutes of the ride.

Your "34km" ride shows proper power after the calibration period. HOWEVER, your unit is struggling "hard" with its internal slope correction algorithms. This needs to be corrected by resetting your device and doing a new master calibration.

Please do the following:

1) Attach PP to your mount, following the instructions that requestyou gently rotate it forward so that it is locked into position. Tighten the screw so PP cannot rotate.

2) Loosen the mount screws, and rotate your mount so that the word "PowerPod" is reasonably level (+/- 10 degrees) to the ground beneath it. Eyeball estimates are fine. Tighten the mount screws, and confirm that the mount and PP cannot rotate.

3) Attach PP to Isaac. Reset your profile using the command "Device/Setup/Reset Profile-Device". Then, reset Profile 1 (I assume this is the profile you are using). This will restore this profile to factory conditions

4) You will now have to re-pair the sensors, and do another five minute calibration ride. Do these things, and then a short ride thereafter.

5) Post the ride file here and i will check wind calibration

I think your unit is carrying-over some residual of the prior owner. The above procedure will get it back to factory condition and allow us to get your unit working well with your bike.

[drashkum]

3) Attach PP to Isaac. Reset your profile using the command "Device/Setup/Reset Profile-Device". Then, reset Profile 1 (I assume this is the profile you are using). This will restore this profile to factory conditions

4) You will now have to re-pair the sensors, and do another five minute calibration ride. Do these things, and then a short ride thereafter.

Done the reset and all 4 profile says factory default. will this automatically recalibrate. Or should i go to setup newton and create a new profile with my weight and bike weight and position of mount and stuff and click on best accuracy to recalibrate?. Pls advice. I dont want to go wrong again this time so asking. Thank you for your patience Mr.Hamann

[Velocomp]

Yes, you will need to recalibrate and re-enter your weight etc.

Please post a ride file afterwards

[drashkum]

Ok. Thanks Mr.Hamann. I will ride as you said and post two files tomorrow for your opinion. Thank you for all the help in times of need

Drashkum

[drashkum]

Patience is what is needed here. Your PP recalibrates itself during the first 8 minutes of each ride.

Your "0km" ride files show zero power for the first 8 minutes of the ride.

Your "34km" ride shows proper power after the calibration period. HOWEVER, your unit is struggling "hard" with its internal slope correction algorithms. This needs to be corrected by resetting your device and doing a new master calibration.

Please do the following:

1) Attach PP to your mount, following the instructions that requestyou gently rotate it forward so that it is locked into position. Tighten the screw so PP cannot rotate.

2) Loosen the mount screws, and rotate your mount so that the word "PowerPod" is reasonably level (+/- 10 degrees) to the ground beneath it. Eyeball estimates are fine. Tighten the mount screws, and confirm that the mount and PP cannot rotate.

3) Attach PP to Isaac. Reset your profile using the command "Device/Setup/Reset Profile-Device". Then, reset Profile 1 (I assume this is the profile you are using). This will restore this profile to factory conditions

4) You will now have to re-pair the sensors, and do another five minute calibration ride. Do these things, and then a short ride thereafter.

5) Post the ride file here and i will check wind calibration

I think your unit is carrying-over some residual of the prior owner. The above procedure will get it back to factory condition and allow us to get your unit working well with your bike.

Hi , Mr.Hamann
As you said
1. I mounted the tripod on the mount and fixed it by rotating it forward to maximum and tightening the screw
2. I loosened the mount screws and fixed the powerpod in such a way that word powerpod on the device is parallel to the ground
3. I reset the device to factory settings and reset the profile too to get all profile as factory default. I went to set up newton and clicked on and fed all the parameters like bike weight and my weight and all the stuff and clicked on best accuracy to set it up for calibration
4. I Re-Paired the sensors and my garmin 520 to the PP and rode today

Ride information I did 2 rides
First one 4.19 Kms for calibration and it was out and back ride to same spot. Solo ride, No drafting. But calibration finished just after i "U" turned to return back to the starting point

garmin.jpg (306.46 KiB) Viewed 17545 times

Do i have to make a strict OUT and BACK calibration ride in such a way that it finishes at 100 at the start point when i return back?...Please let me know if i have to do that

The second ride was for 24kms, Solo ride, no Drafting Predominantly in Zone 3 and 4 of my Heart Rate which was also a Out and Back ride to same spot.Rode predominantly on hoods very marginally on return on drops due to head winds.

The powerpod unfortunately recorded both rides as one file despite me saving 2 separate rides in garmin and clicking on powerpod button( probably i did not press it enough)

So the ride file shows 29kms ride. Here is the file below for your use

iBike_10_22_2016_0526_29_km.ibr

(322.2 KiB) Downloaded 286 times

As usual the wind data says I rode only in tail winds again

Kindly let me know what i have to do.
Eagerly awaiting your reply

Drashkum

[drashkum]

I hope every thing is ok with the ride file....or do you want me to do a calibration ride one more time?....pls do let me know what changes I need to make.....

Drashkum

[Velocomp]

Sorry, I looked at this yesterday and failed to make a posting.

You need to load a corrected profile into your unit, attached. Do another ride and then post. All should be well.

By the way: as you discovered, PP records one long ride file, even when you have two files in your Garmin. Making multiple files in the Garmin does not change PP file structure.

[drashkum]

Sorry, I looked at this yesterday and failed to make a posting.

You need to load a corrected profile into your unit, attached. Do another ride and then post. All should be well.

By the way: as you discovered, PP records one long ride file, even when you have two files in your Garmin. Making multiple files in the Garmin does not change PP file structure.

Thank you Mr. Hamann . I'll load it tonight and do a ride tomorrow and post the info.

Can you educated me on what you did on the file, so that I can do it the next time I get the problem....may be I can help others in the forum too...

And is it always like one file in PP despite multiple rides in Garmin ?. What should I do if I want 2 rides logged in my PP?.. Only way is post ride issac split?

Drashkum

[Velocomp]

I used the "Analyze/Check Calibration" command to correct your wind scaling factor.

PP records one long ride, unless it is asleep for 20 minutes, after which it automatically starts a new ride. So, you'll have to split things in Isaac.

[drashkum]

Sorry, I looked at this yesterday and failed to make a posting.

You need to load a corrected profile into your unit, attached. Do another ride and then post. All should be well.

By the way: as you discovered, PP records one long ride file, even when you have two files in your Garmin. Making multiple files in the Garmin does not change PP file structure.

I did a ride today with the new profile you had sent me. It was a Active recovery ride. i had made a conscious effort of not going above zone 2 of my HR zones ( 148bpm- 160 bpm) with focus on cadence averaging between 75 to 80 RPM. It was a out and back ride to same spot and it was a solo ride with no drafting and full on riding only in hoods

this is the ride file

iBike_10_24_2016_0523_38_km.ibr

(446.13 KiB) Downloaded 293 times

I personally feel that it is overestimating the effort now. i rode slow and steady and my garmin says i have a new threshold of 189. there were tons of tailwinds in patches too. only in place 1km after midpoint were headwinds from what i felt. Kindly help me in modifying the power values close to accuracy

Drashkum

[Velocomp]

I highlighted a symmetric portion of the ride, centered where you turned around, used the "File/Combine-Split/Keep selection only".

I then used "Analyze/Check Calibration" to get a new wind scaling factor.

Your new profile has a bit lower wind factor. In fact, this factor is nearly identical to the one I sent originally.

I think you will be good to go with this factor. The other good news is that your recalibration appears to have fixed the tilt weirdness I saw with your original file.

[drashkum]

I highlighted a symmetric portion of the ride, centered where you turned around, used the "File/Combine-Split/Keep selection only".

I then used "Analyze/Check Calibration" to get a new wind scaling factor.

Your new profile has a bit lower wind factor. In fact, this factor is nearly identical to the one I sent originally.

I think you will be good to go with this factor. The other good news is that your recalibration appears to have fixed the tilt weirdness I saw with your original file.

Looks like finally i am good to go and use this profile as accurate one after a week of tweaking. i will use this profile and post a final ride tomorrow for you to have a look.
Thank you Mr.Hamann and others at velocomp. Your support have been extremely helpful. Thanks a lot

[drashkum]

sorry, Couldnt ride for past 2 days

Only got time to ride today. it was a 38km ride, solo, no drafting, only on hoods. Out and Back.Here is ride file for a final look. slow zone 2 ride

iBike_10_28_2016_0526_38_km.ibr

(342.69 KiB) Downloaded 293 times

i really hope everything is okay with it, please have a look and let me know

Drashkum

[Velocomp]

Before I give my opinion about your ride file, what is yours?

Hopefully you've learned a lot from all your questions...

[drashkum]

Before I give my opinion about your ride file, what is yours?

Hopefully you've learned a lot from all your questions...

ill tell you what i did first to arrive at my decision and then my decision. i did the same thing what you did. i selected a part of the ride with a symmetrical elevation centered around my u turn point . i selected File -> Combine/split-> Keep selection only-> check calibration. the result was this

Capture.JPG (419.41 KiB) Viewed 17432 times

The calibration meter is in green. so the profile looks to be ok and so the power readings are accurate enough i think.

Am i correct Mr.Hamann?

Drashkum