Firmware 5.1

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still-chasing
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Firmware 5.1

Post by still-chasing »

Do I have to do another Cal Ride with the new Bug fix in 5.1 ? The release note says a bug in 5 and 10 minute CAl Ride
Velocomp
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by Velocomp »

No, unless you're unhappy with the Cal Ride results from earlier attempts.

For Newton upgrading to 5.1, there is no reason to repeat Cal Rides. Just ride with you Newton 5, and enjoy Dynamic Power Smoothing, Automatic Profile Selection, Configure Screens, and the rest of the goodies...
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racerfern
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by racerfern »

I've been using an iBike since the very first one and I've been fortunate to be a "beta" tester over the years.

I wasn't very involved in the latest FW5 development and was inclined to leave my Newton alone with an older version. However being the glutton for punishment that I am, I did a hard reset of my Newton and installed the latest Isaac software (3.0.2) and the latest Newton FW (5.01). WOW!

I have never seen anything so easy to setup and use. I even did a Fitness Test after the Cal Ride and I got numbers that were spot on. This without a tilt cal or even a wind cal. The resulting profile was absolutely spot on, no tweaking needed. Good stuff iBike, thank you!
Fernando
ronpei
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by ronpei »

racerfern wrote:I've been using an iBike since the very first one and I've been fortunate to be a "beta" tester over the years.

I wasn't very involved in the latest FW5 development and was inclined to leave my Newton alone with an older version. However being the glutton for punishment that I am, I did a hard reset of my Newton and installed the latest Isaac software (3.0.2) and the latest Newton FW (5.01). WOW!

I have never seen anything so easy to setup and use. I even did a Fitness Test after the Cal Ride and I got numbers that were spot on. This without a tilt cal or even a wind cal. The resulting profile was absolutely spot on, no tweaking needed. Good stuff iBike, thank you!
That is high praise indeed Fernando! I plan to update this spring since my outside riding season is coming to an end right now, the days are short and the weather not so nice in the north east! and well, right now my iBike works well as is, but this spring when all of the little tweaks are done firmware 5.xx here I come!
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by blp »

When I went to Isaac (V3.02)/Device/Check for firmware update, V4.14 was the latest.

How do I update to V5?

Thanks
jazclrint
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by jazclrint »

blp wrote:When I went to Isaac (V3.02)/Device/Check for firmware update, V4.14 was the latest.

How do I update to V5?

Thanks
You gotta pay for it. $50. http://store.ibikesports.com/ibike-newt ... pgrade-key
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blp
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by blp »

Hmmm.

Seems like I am pulling out my wallet a lot for the Newton. I have Garmin Vector on my race bike and Garmin hasn't charged me for any enhancements.

$50 for GPS (hasn't yet worked for me - what a waste! The paradox is I use Garmin data), $100 for pedal stroke balance, $50 for user selected data screens and some programming improvements. Let's see. $500 + 50 +100 + 50 = $700. Approaching the price of Stages and a slew of other offerings coming on-line.

I understand the need for a revenue stream, I'm in business too, but another model might be to develop a revenue stream through expanded customer base rather than relying on existing customers to pony up. Garmin is a major player, partly because of the wider platform they have developed and can co-op, but also because of continued development that is offered to existing users as free updates, which in turn attracts new users. Kind of an Apple approach to customer retention and development.

In my industry, a major vendor developed an interesting policy. I purchased V1 of the software, which included 2 free major upgrades, v2 and V3. I paid a lot for V1, but amortized over V2 and V3, it was very cost effective. Another aspect, that I am sure they designed into the strategy, was that I am now a loyal user and did, just recently, paid full freight for V4.

"Build it and they will come" comes to mind. Some may consider the cost of development as a cost of doing business, given the appropriate revenue model. Just my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I am a believer. The airline industry has been using pitot tubes and pressure data for decades, safely delivering billions of passengers to their destinations safely, based on Newton's 3rd law of physics, the fundamental behind the iBike Newton.

I probably won't upgrade my Newton if I have to continually pay so it will do what it should do.
nsidirop
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by nsidirop »

Hi, i got FW5 and I am missing 3 things:

1) I am no longer able to set the total number of hours for each profile, only the total number of kilometers (odometer screen).
2) I am no longer able to set the time in 24h mode instead of am/pm mode.
3) I am no longer able to see the friction and aero scale numbers under the set up menue, this was quite useful in FW4 so I could distinguish between my different profiles

Small things but still irritating. Velocomp please fix for next release.
jazclrint
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by jazclrint »

blp wrote:Hmmm.

Seems like I am pulling out my wallet a lot for the Newton. I have Garmin Vector on my race bike and Garmin hasn't charged me for any enhancements.

$50 for GPS (hasn't yet worked for me - what a waste! The paradox is I use Garmin data), $100 for pedal stroke balance, $50 for user selected data screens and some programming improvements. Let's see. $500 + 50 +100 + 50 = $700. Approaching the price of Stages and a slew of other offerings coming on-line.

I understand the need for a revenue stream, I'm in business too, but another model might be to develop a revenue stream through expanded customer base rather than relying on existing customers to pony up. Garmin is a major player, partly because of the wider platform they have developed and can co-op, but also because of continued development that is offered to existing users as free updates, which in turn attracts new users. Kind of an Apple approach to customer retention and development.

In my industry, a major vendor developed an interesting policy. I purchased V1 of the software, which included 2 free major upgrades, v2 and V3. I paid a lot for V1, but amortized over V2 and V3, it was very cost effective. Another aspect, that I am sure they designed into the strategy, was that I am now a loyal user and did, just recently, paid full freight for V4.

"Build it and they will come" comes to mind. Some may consider the cost of development as a cost of doing business, given the appropriate revenue model. Just my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I am a believer. The airline industry has been using pitot tubes and pressure data for decades, safely delivering billions of passengers to their destinations safely, based on Newton's 3rd law of physics, the fundamental behind the iBike Newton.

I probably won't upgrade my Newton if I have to continually pay so it will do what it should do.
Yeah, it kind of sucks that you paid the same just to get the GPS as all of these new features. But in my case I bought the cheapest gen III that was available and could have updated over time, just didn't have the money. But other than the initial setup process I have been more than happy for the past 4 years. Now I am able to afford a new one and I get $100 trade-in on the old one and I bought the whole shebang up front which saves me money, plus I got it on sale. There have been many features over the years that have been free. They even cleaned and updated my iSport for free, all I had to do was pay for shipping. It used to be you paid a lot for the GT upgrade, and now it comes as part of an upgrade that costs almost half as much and is only 1/5th of the package deal. I think it is all about how you get into the product. Also, Garmin is a big company and they have a bike computer on a lot of bikes now, so they can afford to take a hit while trying to keep customer base. I'd say the customer support is excellent with the iBike folks and is what keeps many people here. So I am not sure Garmin is much of a fair comparison. I am still not sold on the pedal systems, and nothing is as light (by a LONG shot) and easier to go from bike to bike than an iBike, and you don't need a separate head unit. Also does the Garmin offer software like Isaac for free? Is it as good as Isaac if they do? And that German article spelled it out pretty good, the pedal systems are not as accurate as the Newton, but close. However the Newton was the most consistent accept for the SRM. Although to Quark's credit they were more accurate and almost as consistent. And being consistent is more important. I have beat the tar feathers out of my iBike using it on my road bikes, commuter bike, and mountain bikes, and it works just fine. Will any of those strain gauge pms last as long without needing calibration or repairs? I see you frustration with what seems being like nickel and dimed, but I am not convinced you are not further ahead with the Newton than you will ever be with the Garmin pedals. Just my thoughts.
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by Velocomp »

blp wrote:
I probably won't upgrade my Newton if I have to continually pay so it will do what it should do.
Just what should power meters do? Using the standard set by ALL of competitive products on the market, all they SHOULD do is transmit their power sensor measurements...to another (separately-purchased) device that reads and reports them.

In our view that is a very low standard of performance, and a very expensive one at that.

Over the past 10 years we have invented and offered our customers a constant stream of innovative, useful measurements and metrics in addition to power measurement, none of which can be done with any competitive product:

1) Coast down measurement of CdA and Crr

2) Wind Speed

3) Effort Speed

4) Snapshot Drag Coefficient

5) Continuous Drag Coefficient

6) Time Advantage

7) PowerStroke

8) Dynamic Power Smoothing

9) Automatic Profile Selection

10) integration of GPS data with Newton data

Yes, in some (but NOT all) cases we charge "extra" for these unique enhancements; it costs money to fuel innovation. But here's the thing: we fund the cost of the innovations up-front, then let customers choose if they want to purchase our enhancements. We don't inflate the price of our products up-front to pay for subsequent enhancements that customers may or may not want.

That said, we do acknowledge that there are different revenue models...any customer who pays us the difference between the total retail price of a set of Garmin pedals and Garmin bike computer, and the retail price of the Newton, will be provided free upgrades forever. :D
John Hamann
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by Velocomp »

nsidirop wrote:Hi, i got FW5 and I am missing 3 things:

1) I am no longer able to set the total number of hours for each profile, only the total number of kilometers (odometer screen).
2) I am no longer able to set the time in 24h mode instead of am/pm mode.
3) I am no longer able to see the friction and aero scale numbers under the set up menue, this was quite useful in FW4 so I could distinguish between my different profiles

Small things but still irritating. Velocomp please fix for next release.
We will look at items 1) and 2). Item 3) is no-longer relevant; Automatic Profile Selection, and Isaac profile-naming, handle the profile selection process seamlessly.
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racerfern
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by racerfern »

jazclrint wrote:Hmmm.

Seems like I am pulling out my wallet a lot for the Newton. I have Garmin Vector on my race bike and Garmin hasn't charged me for any enhancements.

$50 for GPS (hasn't yet worked for me - what a waste! The paradox is I use Garmin data), $100 for pedal stroke balance, $50 for user selected data screens and some programming improvements. Let's see. $500 + 50 +100 + 50 = $700. Approaching the price of Stages and a slew of other offerings coming on-line.
I've never seen Garmin enhance any of their products. They issue firmware updates to fix bugs and/or address customer concerns. Other than that, they come out with a new product making the old one obsolete at which point they stop its firmware development.

Not sure why your GPS doesn't work, you need to talk to someone at Velocomp to get it straighened out. It works far better for me than either my Garmin 750, Strava app, MyTracks or Glympse. I even use all the droid apps at the same time and the Newton yields more accurate results. I love my powerstroke option as it makes me consciously think about my pedal stroke as the day wears on. It's interesting how sloppy I can get late into a ride.

As far as 5.1, there are lots of cool things in it for sure, the biggest one being simplicity of setup. Since my unit has been setup for years this was no big advantage to me, but it will be very useful when setting up a new bike. However, the DPS is awesome. No more waiting for the smoothing to catch up with your effort.

Now move your Newton from bike 1 to bike 2 and the cost of the Newton just dropped in half. I think that's an awesome deal.
Fernando
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by blp »

John, Interesting point about cost difference vs. upgrade costs, a point taken.

I have no issues with Newton in principle, and Isaac is indeed unique and has real depth.

To clarify a bit on Racerfern's comment, Garmin DOES provide enhancements, not just bug fixes. For example, Garmin software now records and displays pedal torque values. This info will be useful for drilling down into race files etc. I know, Powerstroke has similar features and perhaps more useful info.

The only real shortcoming of the Newton is rain is it's Achille's heal, especially here in Vancouver. Riding in a pace line in the rain kills the Newton and the RWS is not an option on my road bike. This is where DPM such as Vector trumps Newton.

On the customer service comments, Velocomp has been very responsive, as has Garmin. It's a draw on this point. I have to say this forum is VERY useful and John's participation is great.

Again, I have no real issues with the Newton (except wet weather performance.) We're good.
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by Velocomp »

I think Racerfern's point is that you have to buy a new set of pedals (for $1500) before you can get into their "club".

With the Newton, you can have our original production unit, produced in 2012, and for $100 you can upgrade it at anytime to PowerStroke.

We agree that performance in rain could be better. Seems like something we should be working on... ;)
John Hamann
ldmitruk
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by ldmitruk »

Here's another thought on costs. When competitors come out with new hardware do they take a trade in on the old units and give you a new one at a reduced cost? I don't think so.
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by blp »

John, I hope your team can find a solution for wet weather performance. Aircraft pitot tubes and the pressure sensors function in wet and freezing conditions. Of course, those are around $10K each!

I look forward to an all-weather version Newton.
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Re: Firmware 5.1

Post by Pete »

blp wrote:John, I hope your team can find a solution for wet weather performance. Aircraft pitot tubes and the pressure sensors function in wet and freezing conditions. Of course, those are around $10K each!

I look forward to an all-weather version Newton.
A possible partial work-around could be something like an "ignore wind" type setting.
In fog or rain when there might be near zero wind, if Newton gets thrown out I have observed in uploaded files that very high (70kph) winds got recorded (once or twice in ~200 rides)
So post ride I'll correct wind to zero and end up with a reasonable file.
Being able to shut off wind during a ride would at least help with the displayed numbers during the ride/race.
Or perhaps some way to re-zero the wind whilst riding?
Wind could still be recorded to re-apply post ride or section by section.
Wind and rain together could still be a problem and the wind trainer is perhaps the best solution? :)
Pete
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