Determining weekly TSS loads

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GWPOS
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Determining weekly TSS loads

Post by GWPOS »

Ok so here is my question.....

How does one go about determining the amount of training using TSS numbers per week to avoid over training? I have read "Training and racing with a power meter" but still not quit sure on this. Is it something I determine by actually reaching an over trained load? Hopefully not. I do understand that the TSS loads change through the season and will get greater as the season goes. I was just wandering about how to figure it out from the get go now that I am training with power. Thanks.....

Clint
MdC
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Re: Determining weekly TSS loads

Post by MdC »

The training peaks software can graph this for you, cost is about $100 USD. They use a couple of metrics to determine training load; CTL (critical training load) and ATL (acute training load). ATL is the measure of load over a short time frame (2 weeks), and CTL is the cumulative load over 15 days or so.
Have a read of this:
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/ ... chart.aspx

It should explain it better that I could. CTL is probably the main one to look at, and the only other advice I would offer is to listen to your body. It will tell you when it is getting tired.

I think there are a few excel spreadsheets available on the web that can do similar or you could build your own if you are that way inclined. Have a look through the wattage forum on google groups.
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Morocco Mole
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Re: Determining weekly TSS loads

Post by Morocco Mole »

Just to expand a little, CTL is one to watch long term and and shows your current state of fitness. For simplicity sake it's calculated from your last couple of months workouts, but it doesn't give any insight into whether you are over trained or heading that way . TSB or "Training Stress Balance" is what you need to watch to ensure you are not digging yourself into a hole, or getting to a point of becoming overtrained. TSB is calculated by subtracting ATL (acute training load) from CTL :- TSB = CTL - ATL

So going back to your original question, what you need to do is ensure your TSB does not go too negative for too long. Unfortunately everybody is different and some people can sustain much lower TSB scores for longer durations that others, so you do have to get a feel for what is right for you over a period of time. Planning your rides around TSS is the great way of manipulating the TSB score and because the iBike can display TSS real-time you can do this very accurately.

For example:-

My current TSB is -20, ATL is 135 and CTL is 115 . In order to raise my TSB I would need to do some rides that reduce my ATL (ATL responds quicker than CTL as it is based on your last 7 days of rides). Therefore, any ride I complete with a TSS of less than the current ATL (135 in this case)) will reduce my ATL and bring up TSB. This is a great strategy for tapering leading up to races where you want your TSB to be moving in a positive direction, although I'll leave that discussion for another thread.

As MDC suggested, WKO+ from trainingpeaks is a great tool for monitoring these values, and I often use it to do "what if" scenarios by planning out 2 weeks of rides in advance, you can just enter a TSS value for each planned ride, change your computer date 2 weeks forward and then see what your CTL, ATL and TSB will be in the future. I also came across a great web based TSB Planner http://www.twowheelblogs.com/training-w ... sb-planner

Hope this makes a bit more sense.
GWPOS
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Re: Determining weekly TSS loads

Post by GWPOS »

Thanks, that does shed some light on the subject. I already am a paid subscriber to Training Peaks, now I may have to go ahead and do WKO also.
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Morocco Mole
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Re: Determining weekly TSS loads

Post by Morocco Mole »

If you didn't want to purchase WKO+, I have created a very simple excel spreadsheet you could use to track your CTL, ATL and TSB. The published formula for each is a follows

CTL(d) = CTL(d-1)+[TSS(d)-CTL(d-1)]*[1-exp^(-1/42)]
ATL(d) = ATL(d-1)+[TSS(d)-ATL(d-1)]*[1-exp^(-1/7)]
TSB(d) = CTL(d-1) - ATL(d-1)

To use the spreadsheet (excel), you need to enter your starting CTL and ATL values. All you do then is enter your TSS value for the day based on what the iBike tells you. This only took me a couple of minutes but you could really pretty it up and add some charts, much like the PMC in WKO+ I have only copied the formula down 30 rows, just extend the range as needed. Will also let you do "what if" planning as I mentioned in the previous post. Knock yourself out.

Cheers Mole
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coachboyd
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Re: Determining weekly TSS loads

Post by coachboyd »

This is a good discussion. A lot of people worry about "over-training" and how they can avoid that. If you keep track of your weekly TSS (the performance manager chart, or PMC, from Cyclingpeaks is a great way to do so), you can watch your rate of increase for your long term training load.

As long as your short term training load (the workouts you do in the past 7 days), doesn't far exceed your long term training load you won't be overtraining. Overtraining is simply doing too much work for the amount you have prepared for. We see this in the late winter/early spring time in a lot of people. They have been on the trainer all winter and all of a sudden there is a break in the weather and they go out and put a ton of miles in, but then they need a couple weeks to recover from that.

If you follow a more gradual approach, building your training load consistently every week, you are getting in better shape and you'll be able to support a higher training load. If you give yourself mental breaks every three weeks your long term training load will actually go higher than the short term and you'll be resting. If you are ramping at a proper rate, it should only take a few days of rest before you are recovered (in Cyclingpeaks WKO+, this is known as Training Stress Balance or TSB).

A mental break can be the most important thing for long term physical benefits. Most people will tap out mentally before they do physically. If you have been going hard all year long, mentally you are done in August or so (at least in the racing scene). We see this around here all the time. In February our racing starts around here and people are ready to go. They have been riding hard all winter, they are ready to race, and out races in February are some of the hardest of the year. People will also brag about their training rides in bad weather (I just rode 6 hours in 38 degrees with it drizzling). But around April, things start to change. They are still training hard, but people will skip a workout here or there, or might not ride if they think the weather will be bad. It's completely different thinking that just a few months prior. But a lot of those guys never take any time off. Just a few days in a row of rest every three weeks can keep the mind mentally ready to push harder and harder. The warning signs of physically burning out often show up as mental signs of fatigue, and it can be hard to diagnose them for yourself.

It's now October and here in the Carolinas we are having some of the nicest weather of the year, but nobody is out training. Everybody (including myself) is taking a big end of the season break to totally recharge the batteries. This helps when starting to train hard for the next season, after a few weeks of no riding we'll be mentally ready to go. . .no matter what the weather is like.
Boyd Johnson
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racerfern
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Re: Determining weekly TSS loads

Post by racerfern »

I don't want to muddy the waters on this excellent discussion yet there is also another alternative. http://www.zonefivesoftware.com (SportTracks) is excellent software and has numerous plugins to meet your wants and needs. And it's free.

For example:
A plugin called WB CSV Importer imports the iBike files perfectly including cadence, hr, power, speed, slope and elevation. This one is essential. It does allow for bulk import so you can just lump your csv files into one dir and do a massive import.

A plugin called Training Planner graphs all the appropriate metrics (TSS, TSB, ATL, CTL, NP, AP, w/kg, VI) in addition to giving you CP5s through CP60m. This works for older iBike files that might not have all the data in the file itself. You can specify your FTP for date ranges so it tracks properly. It also lets you establish a training plan with periods and goals.

A plugin called Training Load doesn't use TSS but uses TRIMP which is a very similar metric. This plugin allows you to simply type TRIMP=xxx in the notes section of any given day. It then projects your TSB, CTL and ATL metrics based on your estimates. Great for forecasting. You can even tell it when the upcoming event is and it will give you a taper date. For actual activities it calculates TRIMP from the data and gives excellent results.
Fernando
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Morocco Mole
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Re: Determining weekly TSS loads

Post by Morocco Mole »

Damn you Fernando, do you realize how much time I am going to waste now playing with a new bit of software !! Seriously though, looks interesting, I really like the plug-in capability and GPS routing ability. Seems to combine the best of WKO+ and Training peaks online with a few extras.
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racerfern
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Re: Determining weekly TSS loads

Post by racerfern »

LOL am I. The consolation is it's really not a waste of time. If you use WKO there's nothing magically new here as far as power analysis goes. But if you don't have WKO then SportTracks is a boon.

If you get stumped go over to the ST forum, I have the same user name there.
Fernando
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racerfern
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Re: Determining weekly TSS loads

Post by racerfern »

1) Look in the plugin section for the WB CSV Importer. Download and install it.
2) Download your iBike the regular way saving the csv file with iB3 as usual.
3) Click on import as you normally would in ST, navigate to the folder with the iB3 csv file and click on it.

That's enough to get a file imported, from there the possibilities are endless.

Then look for the Training Planner plugin. That contains all the parts necessary for TSS, NP, etc. The training planner plugin takes awhile to master but the basics for TSS, NP, IF are there up front and easy.
Fernando
GWPOS
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Re: Determining weekly TSS loads

Post by GWPOS »

Ok I downloaded some of the plugins but I am having trouble with the planner plugin. I am not sure how to install it. I read the forums and unzipped it like they said but still I have no planner plugin to play with. Do you know how to do this?
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racerfern
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Re: Determining weekly TSS loads

Post by racerfern »

GWPOS wrote:Ok I downloaded some of the plugins but I am having trouble with the planner plugin. I am not sure how to install it. I read the forums and unzipped it like they said but still I have no planner plugin to play with. Do you know how to do this?
Two things:

What directory did you unzip it to?

and

I suggest you join the group at the SportTracks forum. I'll gladly answer your questions but it's more appropriate over there. Besides some of the answers might already be there and only need a search.

You can also email me directly at fernando.j.maldonado at gmail.com
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GWPOS
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Re: Determining weekly TSS loads

Post by GWPOS »

You are right, will reach over at ST. Thanks
doofus
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Re: Determining weekly TSS loads

Post by doofus »

if you're a long-time endurance athlete with a balanced life, then just listen to your body

if you're new to endurance sports, or lead an unbalanced life (you ride your bike 20 hours a week or you work 60+), get a coach and rest when s/he tells you to.

I've seen people try to tweak the edge of their fitness by manipulating ATL and CTL in WKO+, and they usually end up burned out and going back to a coach to straighten them out.

I'm one of those guys Boyd mentioned who never takes time off the bike -- but -- I stop racing and any group rides at the start of August, and don't pick up again with that nonsense until the end of Feb.. I also take the first two weeks of August and do nothing but 45-60 minute recovery rides, then do the same thing at the end of April. I don't get off the bike, but I give my body and mind a nice break.

I want to be going well in Feb-March before my allergies kick in, so I'm already doing FTP training now. April pollen is unpredictable, but, in May I'll take a break and then ramp up again for June-July, then call it a season.

Planning your year means planning your rest. I post the crazy crap I do currently on my blog, but don't assume I'm trying to ride all year round like that....
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