Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

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Hank
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Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:21 am

Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Hank »

HI All,
I'm quite new owner of an AeroPod+.
Some questions has come up:
1)
Q1: Should the garmin edge 1030 computer present CdA in parallel with Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics?
I have Garmin vector 3 pedals (left and right). I have cycling dynamics on computer like where I start to push and pull the pedal, where is exactly my feet (sole) on the pedal or if I was standing or sitting etc.
It looks like to me either the AeroPod or other power sensor like garmin vector 3 can be connected to the Garmin EDGE 1030 computer in the same time. So there is no chance to have online CdA presented on Garmin together when all data from vector 3 is also recorded by Garmin.
Also it looks like to me the AeroPod works as a hub that is collecting data from speed sensor, cadence sensor, power sensor and send them to the cycling computer such as Garmin edge 1030, however it is also re-package them after information gathered, and some data is not forwarded (cycling dynamics).
My only problem so far it looks like I successfully downgraded my Garmin Vector 3 for 399 USD as via AeroPod it is no longer able to present the cycling dynamics.
Also after several calibration I sill do not see ANY change in CdA nor slope, however, it looks like something was recorded inside the device, only it does not send to Garmin despite the connection looks ok.
Also when stopped the pedalling it has more delay than Vector3.

2) GPS tracker, PowerStroke
I have Garmin 1030 EDGE and also I have Garmin Vector 3. So theoretically I should have GPS data as well as cadence sensor.
However in the ISAAC software (in MACOS) when I click on PStroke logo or Get GPS Tracker sign I'm immediately redirects to http://store.ibikesports.com/ which does not exists.
I'm not sure how these features can be activated. As far as I understood this is a setting inside the device before purchase.
OK, I read I have to download (on Android) an application called Newton tracker however it was created 1.5 year ago and can not be seen any feedback or statistics. Developer is "Newton developer" and has a Gmail address. So not promising and the description itself is in Spain or similar language.
Q2: Newton tracker from Newton developer the application that I should download?
UPDATE: I downloaded the iPhone version finally. It looks like it is not enough to give permission to allow GPS during the use of the app. Anyway.
Q3: What is the reason behind to use that specific application when I have GPS data from my Garmin? As far as I see that application may record position with exact time which will be the key to match AeroPod with the position. What else is the advantage? Is there any way to use only Garmin?
Q4: For powerstroke I should have a cadence sensor which is theoretically in the Vector 3. Should I install additional cadence sensor?

3) A typo in the installation process: Install instructions updated ~10 days ago.
Users should follow exactly what is written, however the first step has wrong instruction as if I extract NI-488.2.19.5 then there is no SiLabsUSBDriverDisk.dmg as that will be extracted ~3 steps later. So I should extract something in similar to NI-488...:
STEP 1: INSTALL “NI-488.2 19.5.dmg.zip”
1) Move the “NI-488” file from the Downloads folder to your desktop
2) Double-click on the file to unzip it
3) Double-click on the “SiLabsUSBDriverDisk.dmg” file. You will see this

4) Q5: The wind is in mph. Is there any way to change to kmh {on Garmin computer field)?

5) Q6: What about the water resistance? (I mean a heavy rain during cycling.)

6) I connected the AeroPod at home to the Garmin EDGE 1030. I picked up the front of the bike and the slope changed. So it appeared to be OK.
Then both Garmin and AeroPod went to sleep. About 30 minutes later I started my ride. I experienced that the slope does not change at all on the display. Despite I picked up the front of the bicycle so it should presented 90 degree. I stopped the training on Garmin. Restart. Nothing changed. The connection appeared to be working despite I switched off the aeropod (5 times pressing the button). I have not seen "--" in any of the data filed (cda, wind, slope).
Then fully powered off Garmin, then power on. And that helped. From that point slope and wind was presented, however CdA remained the same despite of my position change.
In both case (before and after the power off) also watts were transferred so there was connection between Aeropod and Garmin.
Q7: Are you aware of the possible bug in the software you provided for Garmin EDGE?
Any answer is welcome as I have less than 1 week to decide to send back or keep the device.

Thanks.
Velocomp
Velocomp CEO
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Re: Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Velocomp »

1) I would pair your 1030 to your Garmin pedals (as a power meter), AND to your AP (for CdA data). I'm not 100% sure this will work but it's worth a try. Note that you can see all of your AP data after the ride in Isaac, so if the double-pairing idea doesn't work then you can pair your 1030 to your pedals and look at CdA data after the ride.

2) Make sure your AP is set to profile 4. If you're not seeing changing CdA data you are likely on profiles 1-3

3) If your Garmin is averaging its power data, then you have the combined effect of AP power averaging and Garmin 1030 averaging. Set your Garmin to zero averaging.

4) You can't get the required cadence information for PowerStroke from your pedal cadence sensor. PowerStroke requires a crank-arm-mounted cadence sensor

5) In the iOS VeloTrack app, in Settings make sure you set your permissions to "always".

6) You can merge your Garmin 1030 GPS .tcx or .gpx data into Isaac using the "File/Merge Data from Another Device" command. The advantage of using the Tracker app is that the process is seamless and automatic; with a GPS bike computer you have to download your Garmin bike ride data, export it as a .tcx or .gpx file, then merge it into your Isaac ride file.

7) Thanks for catching the typo in the installation instructions. They have been corrected!

8) At present there is not a way to display wind speed in kph. We are waiting for Garmin to issue the ANT+ standard for the CdA profile

9) Rain resistance is fine. The USB connector is waterproof. If the wind port becomes blocked then power/CdA readings might become funky, but blowing out the wind port fixes this. Also, the wind sensor is waterproof.

10) We are not aware of any bugs in our power transmission data. We have had a few reports that Garmin recently released a firmware update for the 1030 that was buggy; we don't know if they have addressed their problems.
John Hamann
Hank
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:21 am

Re: Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Hank »

Hi,

Thanks for the answers.
Regarding Garmin vector 3 and aeropod in the same time.
Bellow I made a typo. :) AeroPod is recognised as a power sensor. Two power sensor such as AeroPod and Vector 3 can not be connected in the same time.
That's why I really miss the cycling dynamics data. Now the training feedback of Garmin is more crap than before. ;-) (I assume Garmin miss some some sensor additional data or even the both leg power sensor or whatever. I haven't had time to think on that yet.)

Is there any chance to change the device type to something else and transmit the CdA temporary via that way? Or this is why you mentioned that you have been waiting for a while for Garmin to define the CdA in the ANT+ standard?

I will write email also.

Zoli
Velocomp
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Re: Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Velocomp »

Connect your 1030 to your AP as the power sensor. It's possible that our ConnectIQ app will still show CdA data.
John Hamann
Hank
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:21 am

Re: Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Hank »

I have Already tested it on that way too. However in this case my Garmin vector pedal would become obsolote and also I would not get some data l.

One of the reason I purchased CdA sensor is to see immediately the advantage of cloth, helmet, position on bicycle. I would like to learn from that or confirm my experience.

Also it is still important to see the cycling dynamics data such as sitting or standing, position of feet, how and when I push or pull pedal.
I guess there is no software that is able to show these together and probably there is no too much advantage on my level except to gain some experience.

Anyway. I try to calibrate again +add a dedicated cadence sensor and see if it improves something.

But the cycling dynamics still would be important.

What do you think? Is it possible to change the device type so that AP would report itself as non-power sensor so I could connect both of them to Garmin edge?
So if I connect vector 3 as power sensor to AP then cycling dynamics data would not be transferred.
Velocomp
Velocomp CEO
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Re: Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Velocomp »

If the two-sensor approach doesn't work then I don't think you're going to be able to see all the data you want while riding.

AeroPod is a sensor that provides its data to bike computers, in the same way as every other sensor on your bike (DFPM, speed, cadence, HR, and more). How the bike computer processes, displays, and records sensor data is outside of our control. We cannot force the bike computer manufacturer to do anything it does not want to do.

Personally, I find that post-ride analysis is much more useful. I can study what I did and what its impact is. Particularly with measurements like CdA, this is difficult to do while riding.

Also, PowerStroke provides the same kind of insights as Cycling Dynamics.
John Hamann
Hank
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:21 am

Re: Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Hank »

So 2 problems I have.

1) Aeropod does not transfer all data received from Garmin vector 3 such as cycling dynamics (position of feet, degree where I start to push/pull pedal etc.) and according to that Garmin connect feedback about the training I did.
In my last rides (with Aeropod) I got feedback that I "over reached".
If Aeropod transfered data then only 1 power sensor (Aeropod) would be necessary, other one would be connected via the Aeropod.

2) As you mentioned it is not possible to send all data received from Vector 3 to Garmin computer.
Two sensor approach does not work as both sensors report itself as power sensor and Garmin does not accept only one in one time. Of course Garmin vector 3 is out of your control. But what about your sensor? Probably if you used something else as sensor type (or allow user to change it if no power is required from Aeropod) then two sensors could be present in the same time. I do not know the standard but I do not think so it is impossible.
Velocomp
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Re: Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Velocomp »

Hank wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:30 am So 2 problems I have.

1) Aeropod does not transfer all data received from Garmin vector 3 such as cycling dynamics (position of feet, degree where I start to push/pull pedal etc.) and according to that Garmin connect feedback about the training I did.
In my last rides (with Aeropod) I got feedback that I "over reached".
If Aeropod transfered data then only 1 power sensor (Aeropod) would be necessary, other one would be connected via the Aeropod.

2) As you mentioned it is not possible to send all data received from Vector 3 to Garmin computer.
Two sensor approach does not work as both sensors report itself as power sensor and Garmin does not accept only one in one time. Of course Garmin vector 3 is out of your control. But what about your sensor? Probably if you used something else as sensor type (or allow user to change it if no power is required from Aeropod) then two sensors could be present in the same time. I do not know the standard but I do not think so it is impossible.
Do the following:

1) Pair both AP and Garmin pedals to your bike computer

2) Select the Garmin as your power sensor

3) Try a ride. There is a non-zero chance that you will see cycling dynamics on your power page, and CdA information on your CdA page
John Hamann
Hank
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:21 am

Re: Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Hank »

Do the following:

1) Pair both AP and Garmin pedals to your bike computer

2) Select the Garmin as your power sensor

3) Try a ride. There is a non-zero chance that you will see cycling dynamics on your power page, and CdA information on your CdA page
1) Not possible. As both AP and Garmin vector 3 reports itself as power sensor and I bet most of the cycle computer accepts 1 kind of power sensor in one time, there is no way to connect both of them to the same computer.

2) Completed.

3) Yes, I have cycling dynamics. CdA information on CdA page remains the same regardless I'm front of a group, back of a group, stending or sitting. CdA is always the same. Also no slope change, no wind change. Nothing. Everything is just because of the fact it looks like the suggestion #1 (connecing two power sensors to the same computer) is not possible.

Any other idea? I have only a few hours to test. :-(

Also what is strange the ISAAC sw shows a fixed CdA.
Now I go out to add additional cadence sensor over Vector 3. This is a garmin one. I hope it will help.
Velocomp
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Re: Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Velocomp »

1) It is definitely possible to pair two different power sensors to your Garmin. Your Garmin can make only one power sensor active at a time. So, pair AP and your DFPM to your Garmin. Then, make the Garmin your active power sensor. AP CdA data is not transmitted on the AP Power channel, so it's possible that you can get both CdA and regular Garmin data.

2) It sounds like you might be using profile 1-3. CdA data is only recorded in profile 4. Make sure AP is set to profile 4, do a calibration, and perhaps this will also then show live CdA.
John Hamann
Hank
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:21 am

Re: Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Hank »

1) Yes, you're right. Both of them paired. May I disable the AP's power sensor? I think it will remain paired, however it will not be chosen when Vector 3 is not available in case of any reason (did not wake up etc.)
Unfortunately during the today's ride nothing was changed. Wind and time Adv remained 0. Slope today is -14.0% (yesterday it was -1.5% all day). CdA is still 0.383. If I shutdown computer then probably it will be other value after switch on.
Should I have to connect the AP via BLE or ANT+?

2)
a) Should I have to do a calibaration anyway or is it OK to answer question regarding accuracy " I'd like a better accuracy" (instead of the best). In this case I do not have to do calibration and I can save time on calibration because first I'd like to see some online data instead of accurate).

b) Also I think I use the profile 4 as after I installed a Garmin cadence sensor on left crank arm and finished riding then attempted to download the files(!) I got this message:
"Congratulations, you have completed a PowerStroke ride for profile 4. The cadence sensor angle setting has not yet been
made for this profile. Please select where your cadence sensor is mounted on the left chain stay. (Note that it is
necessary to install an ANT cadence sensor to perform PowerStroke Analysis. Either a speed/cadence combination sensor
or a stand-alone cadence sensor works with PowerStroke.)
"
I have options as "above the left chainstay" or "bellow the left chainstay".
The problem is the cadence sensor is mounted on the crank arm, so depending on the crank arm position it is upper or lower than chain stay.
What should I answer? (I answered above, but I'm really unsure.

As far as I see the CdA (above the map) remains 0.384 mˆ2. No change.
Velocomp
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Re: Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Velocomp »

I decided to do an experiment.

I have two DFPM power meters on my bike. My AP is paired to DFPM1.

My Garmin 820 has been set up to receive the retransmitted DFPM1 power signals and CdA signals from AP. This works just fine...

For the experiment I removed the battery from DFPM1 so that it cannot transmit power data.

I then paired my Garmin to DFPM2. When the Garmin "found" DFPM2 it asked me if I wanted to switch the power sensor to the newly-found power sensor (DFPM2). I confirmed the switch.

So, after making these changes my Garmin was set to receive power data from DFPM2, and CdA data from AP.

I did not alter the CdA screen in any way, so in our ConnectIQ app I had the usual 5 fields: slope/wind/timeadvantage/CdA from my AP, and power data from DFPM2.

I did a short ride and confirmed that my slope/CdA/wind/TA fields appeared on the screen, as well as power data from DFPM2. The slope/wind speed and power fields updated continuously, as desired.

Of course, in this test my CdA and TA did not change, because my AP was not receiving power data from the DFPM1 sensor to which it had previously been paired (DFPM1 battery was disconnected).

My test confirmed that the Garmin can receive and display CdA data from AP, and power data from another power meter.

So, you should be able to set up your Garmin to receive CdA data from our ConnectIQ app, and power data directly from your Garmin (that is, the Garmin won't use retransmitted AP power data). If that is the case then you should be able to maintain the Cycling Dynamics information on a different screen from your Garmin.

The key to getting this to work is making sure your Garmin settings are correct.

For PowerStroke set angle to "above left chain stay".

For your other questions please consult the instructions.

This is a highly specialized use of our product and I really don't have any more information to add on this topic.
John Hamann
Hank
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Re: Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Hank »

Thank you for the test. I will review it. I have 1030 where the sw similar to 820, so thanks for the good choice.
Also I saw there is a new version of 1030 firmware (9.2 beta) where sensor connection stability was improved.

So there are some room to continue the setup. I hope it will work.

The key you mentioned: the CdA did not change as first power sensor was without battery. Probably there is a problem to receive data from my power sensor.
The another key is the CdA screen that you kept unchanged.

I read only profile 4 can be used for CdA. I configured that one only except the first time setup. Probably a factory reset can help. What is strange despite I named the profile it changing back to a standard name. Probably some data is not sent?

Anyway. I will test it tomorrow.
Hank
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Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:21 am

Re: Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Hank »

I would say I have had a successful test and now I have seen the online CdA parameter.
Thanks again for your confirmation and test. The root cause can be the customised CdA screen (see bellow)
Some comments, questions:

1) Maybe an application bug on Garmin? Tomorrow I will repeat the whole test after I install the beta software to 1030 where some sensor connection is fixed.
To reproduce you can do what I did:
First I removed the customized CdA page from Garmin edge 1030 and re-add without changing anything. Then still at home I woke up sensors: vector3, garmin cadence, garmin speed. Then I switched on the Aeropod. I tested the slope by picking up the front wheel: it changed as I expected. After a while both AeroPod and garmin edge 1030 went to sleep automatically as I expected.
Next I went for a ride. So outside I woke up sensors again, connected to aeropod automatically then to Garmin 1030. I checked slope and it did not change regardless what I did. Also neither wind nor CdA changed, however in case of CdA I think it is normal in the first 5 minutes.
As there was no change for minutes I decided to power off/on the computer (so no sleep but full power off like I do each day). Everything during ride without stop. :-)
After power on everything started to work by changing value: slope, wind and after a while the CdA too.

2) In ISAAC application I could not see any change in the CdA parameter. So it remains the same. But I suspect I will need to read more about this. So I just mentioned if you can add something to this (like known configuration issue etc)

3) What is the reason behind to get GPS data automatically only from your GPS tracker? Why you did not implement something to access to a well known fitness tracker application such as strava, endomondo or even Garmin connect? I sync my training to those so it could be automatic.

4) .FIT files from Garmin and ISAAC for Mac. There is a chance to add later GPS data to a ride which can be GPX, TCX and FIT and probably something else too. I chosen FIT from garmin connect. It looks like it does not bring up the map. So I will not see where I was cycling. In case of GPX it works fine.
Hank
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:21 am

Re: Garmin Vector 3 cycling dynamics with AeroPod+ (plus)

Post by Hank »

Update: my Garmin edge 1030 is updated hence this sensor connection issue from Garmin no longer a problem.
Could you please check why the CdA screen connection issue?
The workaround can be to switch on the aeropod when cycling is stating and not pairing in advance.
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