Aeropod in Velodrome

sebo2000
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Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by sebo2000 »

I’m planning to go to Velodrome this Friday. Does AeroPod work in Velodrome? How do I calibrate AeroPod on Velodrome track. I don't think they will let me ride opposite direction, since we would have to stop all the riders. Any special trick?
Velocomp
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by Velocomp »

You will be able to calibrate your AeroPod in a Velodrome, because there isn't any ground wind...

1) Ride to the 50W mark; AP will show solid red

2) Slow to a stop. Light will flash yellow again

3) Continue riding in the same direction, until you reach 100W

Note that you will need to do this such that there is no drafting...
John Hamann
russelldb
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

Sorry to hop into this thread, similar question, may as well group them. For an OUTDOOR velodrome, where I've booked out the whole track, and there is some wind, is it best to do the calibration protocol with the turnaround?

Many thanks in advance

Russell
DavidTriska
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by DavidTriska »

I remember lapping Sainsburies car park in the same direction after a stop, but John might know otherwise.
Velocomp
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by Velocomp »

russelldb wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:24 am Sorry to hop into this thread, similar question, may as well group them. For an OUTDOOR velodrome, where I've booked out the whole track, and there is some wind, is it best to do the calibration protocol with the turnaround?

Many thanks in advance

Russell
If you're riding in an outdoor velodrome, the safe thing is to turnaround at the 50W mark and ride the other way. Once you get to the 70W mark, you can turn around again and ride in the "normal" direction for the remaining 6 minutes.
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dtrousdale
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by dtrousdale »

Velocomp wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:10 am
russelldb wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:24 am Sorry to hop into this thread, similar question, may as well group them. For an OUTDOOR velodrome, where I've booked out the whole track, and there is some wind, is it best to do the calibration protocol with the turnaround?

Many thanks in advance

Russell
If you're riding in an outdoor velodrome, the safe thing is to turnaround at the 50W mark and ride the other way. Once you get to the 70W mark, you can turn around again and ride in the "normal" direction for the remaining 6 minutes.
Could you please explain the purpose of this short and temporary turnaround? I may need to explain this to one of our outdoor track supervisors. Safety, as you may know, is of absolute paramount concern for trackies. People would absolutely flip out seeing me going the wrong way. It puzzles me why this would be necessary if one stops after 50W and then resumes in the same direction. Since we go around and around in an oval, wouldn't the differences in wind direction balance one another out unless there are rapid changes in wind direction during the calibration ride?
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by Velocomp »

A major purpose of the calibration ride is to get the wind sensor readings correct.

When riding outdoors, during the cal ride the ground wind will be in one direction when riding "out", and the wind will be in exactly the opposite direction when riding "back". This is why it's important to turn around.

In an indoor velodrome, there is no ground wind; therefore, you simply slow down to a near-stop (so that AeroPod thinks it is now on the "back" portion of the ride, then you can continue to ride in the same direction.

Russelldb specifically referenced an outdoor velodrome, where ground wind might be a factor.

NOTE: a suitable workaround for the entire velodrome issue is to calibrate AeroPod with an O&B ride on a normal road (not a velodrome). The calibration numbers will be valid afterwards when riding in the velodrome.
John Hamann
russelldb
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

OK, WRT outdoor velodrome O&B calibration and safety etc, I'd like to spend the minimum time riding the wrong way around the track. It's a private booking, but even though, staff may get antsy. So, from reading the instructions, is the OUT portion longer, or the BACK? And in the aeropod instructions, after you hit 70w, you need to ride for 5mins more to get to 100w and finish the calibration.

1, Does the extra 70w->100w need to be in the same direction as the BACK portion?
2, if the extra 70w->100W DOES need to be in the same direction, it looks like BACK is longer than OUT, is it ok to do OUT the wrong way around the velodrome and BACK the right way? This way I'd minimise my wrong-way-aroundness, right?

Sorry if these are dopey questions, I'm a worrier, and I only have 2 hrs on track and want to get it right, so I plan everything.
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

Sorry, one more, does it matter at what speed/power I ride? Do I have to keep speed/power constant?
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by Velocomp »

We recommend you ride at your usual speed. If you can keep speed/power reasonably constant, that is even better...
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russelldb
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

Usual speed? For a 10 mile TT, or a 100mile training ride?
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by Velocomp »

Well, some of us don't ride 100 miles very often... :-)

Speeds above 17 mph are fine.
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russelldb
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

Thanks!
russelldb
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

Well I'm at the velodrome and I have feedback

1. Nope. Non of the lights can be seen outside (ESPECIALL UNDER THE BASEBAR!!)
2. Nope, even when I risk life and limb to peer at the lights, it does not behave as descibed. I just got solid orange, all the time
3. Nope. The watts very quickly climb to 50...and just keep going, to 100w all in a matter of 2 minutes, and then BOOM, I see my real wattage, but no CdA data, even after 10 minutes of riding. I never got to turn around, it never stopped at fifty, AFAICT no lights flashed an code.

Honestly, gutted. What a waste of velodrome session. I'm going straight back to Chung/GC/Aerolab for the remainder of the session. It will take some magical support for me not to return this as unfit for stated purpose. I', sorry, that's blunt, but this is so crazy. I followed the proceedure to the letter. I've repaired 4 times (so slow!) and tried to restart calibration. And nope, see 1-3 above.

Russell
russelldb
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

hmm, now it says my CdA is 0.164 I wish. And when I sit up from the aero tuck? 0.161. I get more aero sat up.
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by Velocomp »

Please post your .ibr ride file
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by Velocomp »

russelldb wrote: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:15 am Well I'm at the velodrome and I have feedback

1. Nope. Non of the lights can be seen outside (ESPECIALL UNDER THE BASEBAR!!)
2. Nope, even when I risk life and limb to peer at the lights, it does not behave as descibed. I just got solid orange, all the time
3. Nope. The watts very quickly climb to 50...and just keep going, to 100w all in a matter of 2 minutes, and then BOOM, I see my real wattage, but no CdA data, even after 10 minutes of riding. I never got to turn around, it never stopped at fifty, AFAICT no lights flashed an code.

Honestly, gutted. What a waste of velodrome session. I'm going straight back to Chung/GC/Aerolab for the remainder of the session. It will take some magical support for me not to return this as unfit for stated purpose. I', sorry, that's blunt, but this is so crazy. I followed the proceedure to the letter. I've repaired 4 times (so slow!) and tried to restart calibration. And nope, see 1-3 above.

Russell
Well, if this is what happened, obviously something was not right. It is impossible to diagnose this with the information you provided.

You don't have to see the lights outside; the watts indicator should provide feedback.

If your unit went to 100W in just a few minutes, with no turnaround required, then I strongly suspect your unit was reset to something other than profile 4. Profile 4 is what the instructions say are necessary. You won't get CdA data except on profile 4.

I'm truly sorry this did not go as you expected, but I'm certain that, once we get your unit operating in accordance with the instructions, you will get good results.
John Hamann
russelldb
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

I set it to profile 4 using Isaac. Is there anything that would make it unset itself?

Another weird thing, the Chung method data, it's so different when re-broadcast through the aeropod. When it is powertap->garmin my analysis brings out numbers I'd expect (roughly) but when it is powertap->aeropod->garmin the analysis figures are WAAAY off. Since power looks about right, it must be speed, eh?

- Anyway, I don't know how to diagnose or verify the profile, do I plug it back into Isaac?
- What is an ibr file, and how do I get one? Is it stored on the aeropod?

After the first few attempts at calibration I gave up and just connected my PT to my Garmin and tried to make the most of the track time. I did another attempt at calibration right at the end of my track time. Same outcome. After calibration CdA showed as 0.14-0.16 if I was going "fast" (300w+) but showed as 0.26-0.28 when I was just pootling along (150-220) which seems odd.

I wondered if maybe the Crr was way off, but then I can't set that. I just told Isaac it was best tyres, best tarmac.

OK, so maybe the problem here is me…I followed instructions, but I have no way to prove or verify that I did.

Russell
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by Velocomp »

Download your AeroPod into Isaac software. The Isaac ride file is recorded in .ibr ride format.

Please post a .ibr ride file and I will check things for you.
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russelldb
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

Will do, as soon as the Track World Cup broadcast is done ;)
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

Bizarre I get "There are no ride files to save" screenshot https://www.dropbox.com/s/84j5gf48udxrr ... 5.png?dl=0

Also https://www.dropbox.com/s/vs8ykcxfh3329 ... 1.png?dl=0

- Why does it say "iBike"?
- How do I check/verify the current profile?
russelldb
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

I clicked on "Analyse -> check calibration" here is the screen

https://www.dropbox.com/s/44xdo10t8zjho ... 7.png?dl=0

Also this from analyse settings

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rvym1n5y71l3f ... 4.png?dl=0

Does my isaac install think I have some other device? And how can it have all that information about a 1h50m ride at 150w but no data/files to download??
russelldb
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

Last one, when I click "setup device" (as I did prior to the session) I see this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rz5ulsx4hwsa4 ... 0.png?dl=0

I named it (TT bike aero test) and yet that is not what is shown here. Is there some step saving the profile to the device that is not part of the wizard that I missed?

If it helps https://www.dropbox.com/s/x8az7htrq83k6 ... 5.png?dl=0

When I try and quit Issac I get this https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ru1fj8ecb2th ... 7.png?dl=0

But I sent the profile to the device! What does it mean? How do I safely unplug the device and quit isaac?
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by Velocomp »

OK, time to slow things down a bit... :-)

1) Connect AP to Isaac

2) Go to "Edit/Edit Profiles"

3) Click "Extract from Device"

4) A new profile will appear in your window. Don't worry if it says it is a copy.

5) Export that profile to you desktop, then attach that profile to your next post ("Attachments"). This will tell the story about what is in your unit

6) You have a ride file on your copy of Isaac. Most likely it is a copy of the sample ride file, but to be sure, click the Save As... button, save to your desktop, then attach .ibr ride file to your post

7) Press-hold your AP button for about 12 seconds. Its light will go out for a moment, then turn back on. Release the button. This hard-resets the unit. Hopefully this will fix the no-ride-file problem.

8) Connect AP to Isaac, then use the command Device/Setup/Set Date and Time to restore the internal clock of your device. Your other settings won't be affected.

We will be able to figure out what is going on...
John Hamann
russelldb
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

3) TOO LATE, I saved a profile to it just a few minutes a go

6) That is the sample file that comes with Isaac

7) Oh my, so this 12 second press could in theory have happened in transit? Hmm, but probably not, since the AP was paired to my PT and when I turned it on at the venue it was on solid orange.

Given 3 above, should I still do the profile extract and attach?
The rest of the advice amounts to "hard reset and try again" right?
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by Velocomp »

I think it's best if you just "start from the beginning". If you do a new sensor pairing that will force a calibration ride.

Make sure you are in profile 4!

You don't have to go to a velodrome for the calibration. I don't want this to be any more inconvenient than it already has been.

Please post a ride file when you have the chance...
John Hamann
russelldb
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

I did that a number of times today, but OK, I'll try again tomorrow, if I can find some quiet roads round here
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by Velocomp »

russelldb wrote: Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:02 pm I did that a number of times today, but OK, I'll try again tomorrow, if I can find some quiet roads round here
I just posted a video. Hopefully there are some helpful hints in it...
John Hamann
DavidTriska
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by DavidTriska »

Hi Russell,

I would think from what you are describing this is a speed or sensor pickup problem.

I’m away from my laptop this weekend but happy to have a look through the files and if you’d like, can talk through testing outdoors.

We had really good results with an old Newton running the beta firmware so I’m hoping this is simply an issue with the pairing process or a sensor.

You’ve got my number on the PM.
russelldb
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Re: Aeropod in Velodrome

Post by russelldb »

Even the device reset…it's not as you describe, I hold the button for 12-15seconds and all it does is flash the pairing light again, and then the red light, then the pairing light flash…is it reset, is it not? How do I tell?
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