powerpod w/ cyclops -- which of 5 entries!?

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funkiestj
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:06 pm

powerpod w/ cyclops -- which of 5 entries!?

Post by funkiestj »

I have a cycleops fluid-2. How am I suppose to chose one of these profiles!?

Image
https://imgur.com/a/NTbSBqk

not sure why the image doesn't show in line so I provided the link to the image.

Also, is there a "set up powerpod to use with your trainer, and how to switch back to out door riding?" video or written guide some where? I think I did it right but I'd rather be CERTAIN I did it right.

I made a second profile for the trainer.
funkiestj
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:06 pm

Re: powerpod w/ cyclops -- which of 5 entries!?

Post by funkiestj »

OK, I did a ride with the first (lowest?) power curve for my cyclops. I also dragged the power adjustment slider all the way to the left (lowest setting) and applied in Isaac to try and lower the power but it is way too high for the perceived effort (and HR) vs what power I see with the same effort in real life on flats and moderate grades.

I'm wondering if I should even bother turning on powerpod for trainer workouts. What I'd like is to have trainer numbers that are somewhat comparable to real ride powerpod power numbers. I don't want bogus power numbers polluting my strava and/or Garmin Connect.

It is not a big deal, just experimenting to see what the new toy can do for me and what it can not.

Is there an FAQ for new Powerpod users (i.e. us folk who have one now and have used it for a few rides)? E.g. these might be n00b FAQs:
  1. How does PowerPod (and Isaac) handle the rider (me) changing riding position (hoods to the drops, vice versa)?
  2. can I do an out and back calibration ride on a climb/decent?
  3. where can I find a nice "out front" handlebar gopro mount (gopro only, not a gopro+garmin combo)? Presumably this should be aluminum rather than plastic for rigidity reasons? I've seen some on the internet but it is hard to know which one to get.
  4. in the 'device mount location' setting, what constitutes 'front mount'? Would that be my desired handle bar mount that sticks out front a bit?
there must be other questions.
Velocomp
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Re: powerpod w/ cyclops -- which of 5 entries!?

Post by Velocomp »

funkiestj wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:54 pm I have a cycleops fluid-2. How am I suppose to chose one of these profiles!?

Image
https://imgur.com/a/NTbSBqk

not sure why the image doesn't show in line so I provided the link to the image.

Also, is there a "set up powerpod to use with your trainer, and how to switch back to out door riding?" video or written guide some where? I think I did it right but I'd rather be CERTAIN I did it right.

I made a second profile for the trainer.
The different curves come from different people who tested it. You will see the name of the source below the graph.

I would use #4; this data came from the manufacturer.
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John Hamann
Velocomp
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Re: powerpod w/ cyclops -- which of 5 entries!?

Post by Velocomp »

funkiestj wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:58 pm
Is there an FAQ for new Powerpod users (i.e. us folk who have one now and have used it for a few rides)? E.g. these might be n00b FAQs:
  1. How does PowerPod (and Isaac) handle the rider (me) changing riding position (hoods to the drops, vice versa)?
  2. can I do an out and back calibration ride on a climb/decent?
  3. where can I find a nice "out front" handlebar gopro mount (gopro only, not a gopro+garmin combo)? Presumably this should be aluminum rather than plastic for rigidity reasons? I've seen some on the internet but it is hard to know which one to get.
  4. in the 'device mount location' setting, what constitutes 'front mount'? Would that be my desired handle bar mount that sticks out front a bit?
there must be other questions.
Since we haven't been asked most of the above questions before, they don't qualify as "FAQ" :-)

However, we are delighted to answer them:

1) Yes, there is an FAQ for PowerPod. It is our "Tips and Troubleshooting" Guide, available here (and, I believe, included with your PP)

https://velocomp.com/support/

2) When you set up PowerPod, you specify your "normal" ride position: hoods, drops, or TT. Your normal ride position is the one you ride in most frequently.

Obviously, PP cannot "know" when you change ride position, so when you do move momentarily, say, from hoods to the drops, then in the drops section of the ride only, your PP watts could somewhat high (because PP will think you are still in the somewhat less aerodynamic hoods position).

The question is: what is the "error" in watts caused by changing ride position away from your "normal" position? Good question, but there is no easy way to answer it!

A. Moving from hoods to drops does reduce CdA, but the AMOUNT of CdA reduction varies from person to person, and bike to bike. One example: for me and my bike setup, my CdA in the drops not even 1% lower than my CdA on the hoods (I've measured my CdA in both positions with AeroPod). So in my case, there is no discernible "error" in PowerPod readings when I move from hoods to drops.

B. For other riders, we've seen reports that their "drops CdA" can be as much as 5% lower than their "hoods CdA". Does that mean that PowerPod would be "wrong" by 5% when that rider moves from hoods to drops? IT ISN"T THAT SIMPLE:

C. The watts reported by PowerPod depends on why you are producing them. PowerPod adds up "hill" watts, "acceleration" watts, "friction" watts, and "aero" watts and reports their sum as "total watts" (the watts you see on your bike computer screen).

Let's suppose you're riding on the hoods and PowerPod reports you're producing 200W. Then you move to the drops, your CdA drops by 5%, but your PowerPod still reports you are producing 200W. By how much is PowerPod over-reporting? It depends...

1. If you are ascending a 5% grade, riding in the drops produces a (theoretical) PP watts "error" of 1.5%--3W
2. If you are on the flats at a constant speed, riding in the drops produces a (theoretical) PP watts error of 4%--6W. Why is it not 5%? Because some of your watts are overcoming friction, which is not dependent on ride position.
3. As you can easily imagine, if your ride has hills, flat spots, descents (this is the most likely situation), then the "composite" error of riding while the drops, is probably somewhere between 1% and 4%.

C. Another factor is this: most people ride in the same position most of the time. So, if you're doing a long interval on the flats (where the potential for ride position watts error is the maximum), and you ride 60% on the hoods (your "normal" position) and 40% on the drops, the watts "error" for the entire section will be around 40% * 4% = 1.6%!! Even for riders who do power training, this is perfectly acceptable.

D. The ONE PLACE where PowerPod can get "into trouble" is on fast descents, where riders go into aero tucks (basically from hoods to TT, an extreme change of CdA, as much as 30%). Now, most riders don't pedal on fast descents (it is a waste of energy--the hill is doing all the work!), and when cadence = 0 then power = 0--PowerPod is reporting the right number, irrespective of ride position. BUT, if the rider soft pedals during the fast descent, then cadence is not zero, and then PowerPod likely will significantly over-report watts. Fortunately these sections are easy to spot in the ride file and to edit out in Isaac. The edited ride file can then be exported to Training Peaks, etc.

Arm-chair physicists love to bash the opposing force technology approach, and ride position change is the battering ram they use to pound away. But in the real world, for most cyclists, it is not a big deal.

3) Yes, you can do an O&B on an ascent/descent. The only "trick" to be aware of is that, if on the out-portion of your calibration your hill is steep, when you reach the 50W mark, you'll need to STOP immediately and turn around. PP will not show solid red at the 50W mark, because it uses low speed to determine when you've turned around.

4) Depending on your handlebars, you can use our AeroPod under-the-bars TT mount. Or, if you have round handlebars, we may have some other suggestions. Please email technicalsupport@velocomp.com with your question, and Tom will get back to you.

5) Yes, if your PP mount location is in the front of the bike, then that would be a front mount. GOOD NEWS: when you do the out-and-back calibration, the calibration will AUTOMATICALLY figure out your actual PP location, no matter what you selected during setup.
John Hamann
funkiestj
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:06 pm

Re: powerpod w/ cyclops -- which of 5 entries!?

Post by funkiestj »

thanks for all the infrequently asked question answers!

I'll try the manufacturer's curve for my Cycleops and see how that goes. Air quality is still terrible here in the Monterey Bay area from wild fire smoke so a indoor ride in on the menu :(

I'm not overly concerned with the hoods vs the drops question, just a curious nerd. Yes, I do spend more than 60% of my time on the hoods. While I commute on flats and mild grades, my idea of a fun ride is lots of steep climbing where aero drag is not much of a factor.

I'm loving the PowerPod and being able to see what power I make at different HR at the beginning and end of a long ride.
funkiestj
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:06 pm

Re: powerpod w/ cyclops -- which of 5 entries!?

Post by funkiestj »

I'm under the impression that I can upgrade my PP to BLE with a firmware upgrade. If this is correct, where do I purchase such an upgrade? Looking at the velocomp.com website I'm not finding a "purchase a firmware upgrade to BLE" option.
funkiestj
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:06 pm

Re: powerpod w/ cyclops -- which of 5 entries!?

Post by funkiestj »

Velocomp wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:58 am
funkiestj wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:54 pm I have a cycleops fluid-2. How am I suppose to chose one of these profiles!?
The different curves come from different people who tested it. You will see the name of the source below the graph.

I would use #4; this data came from the manufacturer.
I tried that one and with the slider all the way to the left
Image and my feeling is that the estimated power is 20-40 watts too high. How can I adjust this?

EDIT: nevermind ... I tried all the others and the first curve looks like the best fit (so far). I'll try that one out for a while.

I see that I can edit coefficients but I have no idea how to tweak these to get an appropriate curve so if it comes to that I'll be looking for help
Velocomp
Velocomp CEO
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Re: powerpod w/ cyclops -- which of 5 entries!?

Post by Velocomp »

funkiestj wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:57 pm I'm under the impression that I can upgrade my PP to BLE with a firmware upgrade. If this is correct, where do I purchase such an upgrade? Looking at the velocomp.com website I'm not finding a "purchase a firmware upgrade to BLE" option.
Here:

https://velocomp-llc.myshopify.com/prod ... pgrade-key
John Hamann
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