Struggling with the PowerPod

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viniga
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Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by viniga » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:11 am

Hi,

I'm sorry to say that I am starting to feel that this is not the power meter I should have bought. I'm sorry if this sounds negative but it's an accurate picture of my experience so far. If anyone has any suggestions on what I can do to improve my experience I would be grateful.

I purchased the PP in Dec 2017, first power meter. Wanted to use it for training on the road for both a road bike and a TT bike. I'm based in W. Scotland, it's wet here, a lot. Winter was not the best time of year to be out on the bike but on the odd dry day I went ahead to calibrate the PP.
  • This initial calibration period was difficult, the process was a bit fiddly and feedback from the unit wasn't great. I struggled and then when I thought It was calibrated sometimes I got readings and sometimes not. Turned out the problem was the speed sensor (a GSC-10) and it was dropping. I put the PP away for the remainder of the winter and concentrated on the turbo.
  • In the spring, after purchasing two new speed sensors, I went to start calibrations again but the USB port was not working correctly and I coudn't connect the PP to the computer. 6 weeks later a new PP arrives under warranty exchange form the UK dealer.
  • After this I finally get the PP calibrated on the two bikes. Happy days, I have power readings and the calibrations are checked by the always helpful John on this site. But then I have my first ride in the rain. So it turns out that the special mount I purchased places the wind port in the perfect position for water to stream in from the front wheel. This invalidates the data from the ride. So I move the PP under the bars and to the side using the supplied mount.
  • Then I find on the Road Bike when putting in an effort in the drops (racing) that the power is too high. So now I need multiple profiles for the road bike. In fact the power curve on this bike shows my best power is downhill (I was pedalling hard on the way down but it was still harder going up!). Post ride power curves are all skewed.
  • Another ride on the road bike in mixed conditions. Windport still gets blocked in new position. Can't stop to clear it when racing... nb this file is attached for interest.
In summary I think the PP is only going to be reliable on my TT bike as I will primarily be in one position and then only when it is dry. Where I live chances of dry weather is 50/50 in the summer. It has proven fiddly to setup. It has had extra unexpected expense (£150) for speed sensors and mount. It is very sensitive to changes in position, especially when going downhill, mostly affecting use of a road bike. And finally if it's wet your power will be FUBAR.

I looked in interest at the Aeropod, it seems this would be an improvement (but at considerable extra expense) and if I understand correctly it still needs to work with a DFPM to deal with changing positions on the bike, correct?

As I said I'm sorry to be negative, really want the PP to work for me but after my last ride when conditions were changing and I am going full gas, the last thing I need is for the data to become meaningless mid ride. Any suggestions are welcome as I can't be the only one. In hindsight, perhaps I should have waited and bought a DFPM.

NB Support on this forum has been excellent.

All the best,

Vince
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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by Velocomp » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:45 am

Hi Vince

Rain is a challenge for any pitot tube design (which is what the PP wind port is). I just read a story about a USAF B2 bomber crashing in 2008, because its pitot tubes became clogged by rain prior to takeoff. The pilots ejected safely, but the ruined airplane cost $1.4 billion!!

Towards the end of your ride I can see a couple of places in your ride file where the wind port appears to be clogged by rain. It also appears the the port clears itself after a while, which is what it is designed to to. You did not have to eject from your bike, and your bike wasn't ruined... :-)

On hills, wind speed isn't really important---your watts are used to climb the hills. So, in the few places on hills where your port is clogged, your measurements are not affected significantly.

We do think AeroPod will be more rain resistant, due to the very long length of its pitot tube. However, it is impossible for us to test every conceivable riding situation. (NOTE: we are 100% certain that the engineers of the B2 bomber thought they had a perfectly designed pitot tube...)

You are correct that, if you go into a tuck on a downhill, whenever you pedal, you can get abnormally high readings. There are a few places where you pedal for a few seconds on downhills, and there are watt spikes, lasting just a few seconds. I don't see any places where downhill power is abnormal for any extended period of time.

If you're trying to do post-ride analysis, a very simple thing you can do is edit out the downhill spikes... Or, knowing this limitation, when riding in a tuck, don't pedal on downhills... ;)

We have said for years, in many places, that the GSC-10 is unreliable. It sounds like this sensor was the cause of your initial difficulties...not our fault! I don't know what replacement sensors you purchased, but the Garmin magnet less speed and cadence sensor bundle costs about $49 on Amazon.

If you had sent your malfunctioning unit to us for repair we would have replaced it in 24-48 hours, not 6 weeks.

I am truly sorry you've had some stumbles, and most certainly you are aware of the quirks of PowerPod.

But what you don't know are the quirks of the alternatives. For the record, we have yet to use another power meter where we haven't found design limitations.

Maybe a different power meter is better for you. But remember: this forum responds only to questions about ours! :D
John Hamann

viniga
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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by viniga » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:44 am

Thanks John,

I appreciate the reply.

Speaking for myself.. I want accuracy during the ride. When the power readings went out the first time I did stop and blew hard into the port which cleared it, on the second time I just swore and turned the readings off from the head unit. Basically I look down and I see a number and I don't know if its right. Once you don't trust it, well you don't trust it! On a short TT you want accuracy if pacing with power. Oh well it's raining today...

I've attached another ride that shows my power on the descent being high (well I think so, if you select the 5m peak power it will select the downhill part where I was driving hard to the course finish as tucked as I could be).

NB I do regret sending the unit back via the dealer, I do think I would get much better service dealing direct with you and yes I should have done my research on the GSC-10. Unfortunately USD are rather unfairly converted equally to GBP, i.e. I paid 49 GBP which is ~63 USD per sensor and 67 USD for the mount = $193. Not your fault just part of the rip off we suffer here in Britain.

BTW Am I right that you need a DFPM with the Aeropod for it to know you are changing positions on the bike yes?
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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by Velocomp » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:37 am

Ouch! We pay $49 for BOTH sensors, not $67 each...next time let us know and we will get them here for you! :-)

If you change ride positions to become more aero in a tuck, PP will attribute the added speed to more power from you. It does not know that the additional speed is a result of the tuck.

Yes, AeroPod requires a DFPM. You seem like a fairly serious cyclist, and knowing both your power AND how aero you are might appeal to you. We have a trade-up discount of 30% for AeroPod, so that will help, too!
John Hamann

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by darthmonkey » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:44 pm

As a fellow PP strugger, I can state that you'll never 'really' know if your power is accurate unless you have a frame of reference such as a DFPM. Although you could argue that if you only have a DFPM, and don't have it calibrated, you'll never know if it's reading correctly either, I doubt you'll be spending weekends re-calibrating it, and visiting forums to find out how to use it.
I live in Australia which doesn't get much, but on rainy days I leave the PP at home after discovering this limitation.
I've come to the conclusion that at best, the PP is a fantastic backup to a DFPM, because you can go on a calibration ride, come back and tweak it to match a 'real' power meter, you can then swap it between your bikes, in certain knowledge that you've got it right.
At worst the PP is an unreliable power 'guesstimator', which although much cheaper than a DFPM, is still too expensive to warrant a 'give it a go, and bin it if it doesn't work' test.
For you, the sentence 'Rain is a challenge for any pivot tube design' should really have been highlighted before your purchase, Scotland being one of the worst places to discover this limitation.
To answer your question '..If anyone has any suggestions on what I can do to improve my experience..' mine would be buy a DFPM if you're looking for an accurate reading. They're coming down in price all the time.

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by viniga » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:49 am

Thanks darthmonkey, I think I have come to the same conclusion.

@John, when you say edit spikes out of your ride do you mean remove sections of the ride or is there a way to adjust cda / power just for a section? I also see that there is a repair for blocked windport function but even after reading the instructions I'm not sure how to use it, can it be used selectively? How would you know the wind speed?

@John, the discount is generous and I may revisit this, as a tool to estimate cda would be rather cool. But in any case it looks like I need a DFPM, time to save the pennies.

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by Velocomp » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:08 am

darthmonkey wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:44 pm
As a fellow PP strugger, I can state that you'll never 'really' know if your power is accurate unless you have a frame of reference such as a DFPM. Although you could argue that if you only have a DFPM, and don't have it calibrated, you'll never know if it's reading correctly either, I doubt you'll be spending weekends re-calibrating it, and visiting forums to find out how to use it.
I live in Australia which doesn't get much, but on rainy days I leave the PP at home after discovering this limitation.
I've come to the conclusion that at best, the PP is a fantastic backup to a DFPM, because you can go on a calibration ride, come back and tweak it to match a 'real' power meter, you can then swap it between your bikes, in certain knowledge that you've got it right.
At worst the PP is an unreliable power 'guesstimator', which although much cheaper than a DFPM, is still too expensive to warrant a 'give it a go, and bin it if it doesn't work' test.
For you, the sentence 'Rain is a challenge for any pivot tube design' should really have been highlighted before your purchase, Scotland being one of the worst places to discover this limitation.
To answer your question '..If anyone has any suggestions on what I can do to improve my experience..' mine would be buy a DFPM if you're looking for an accurate reading. They're coming down in price all the time.
If you have a one-leg power meter (these are the only PMs that are dropping in price), you'll only know it's accurate if you have a frame of reference, which is a both-leg power meter, such as PowerPod.

We have over 2,500 forum members, of whom maybe 50 are active at any time. And we have 10s of thousands of customers in total. The percentage of PP owners "spending weekends recalibrating it and visiting forums" is vanishingly small.

I live in south Florida, where it rains all the time. When I ride in the rain my PP generally works just fine. To be fair, I don't do 50 mile rides in the rain, as does vinga. But most of our customers don't do such long rides in the rain. And rain does not damage PP (as it too often does with some competitor products).

One of the things I've been doing, on a daily basis, for the past 7 months, is riding with a PowerPod and a DFPM, and comparing their readings after every ride. They are extremely close, within a couple of watts. Most certainly, if I change ride positions, the numbers will diverge some, but that's how we measure CdA! :-)
John Hamann

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by Velocomp » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:13 am

viniga wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:49 am
Thanks darthmonkey, I think I have come to the same conclusion.

@John, when you say edit spikes out of your ride do you mean remove sections of the ride or is there a way to adjust cda / power just for a section? I also see that there is a repair for blocked windport function but even after reading the instructions I'm not sure how to use it, can it be used selectively? How would you know the wind speed?
If there is a section of the ride where you know you were pedaling downhill in a tuck, and that section is screwing up your ride stats, highlight that section in Isaac, then use the command below to delete it.
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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by darthmonkey » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:16 pm

Velocomp wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:08 am
If you have a one-leg power meter (these are the only PMs that are dropping in price), you'll only know it's accurate if you have a frame of reference, which is a both-leg power meter, such as PowerPod.
All except the IQ2, which is dual leg, and similar in price to the PP.
https://www.iqsquare.com/
Velocomp wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:08 am
We have over 2,500 forum members, of whom maybe 50 are active at any time. And we have 10s of thousands of customers in total. The percentage of PP owners "spending weekends recalibrating it and visiting forums" is vanishingly small.
Although I'd love to draw the same conclusion based on ...? Customer experience surveys? I wonder what percentage of the x thousand:
Don't care enough to post their experiences, find the forum difficult to navigate, don't know it exists, have read the forums but haven't posted, are working under the illusion that power is power is power and have never tried to calibrate, accept that the price is too low to warrant complaint, don't have the time or persistence to chase up issues, or have just thrown it to the back of a drawer as a lost cause.
Velocomp wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:08 am
I live in south Florida, where it rains all the time. When I ride in the rain my PP generally works just fine. To be fair, I don't do 50 mile rides in the rain, as does vinga. But most of our customers don't do such long rides in the rain. And rain does not damage PP (as it too often does with some competitor products).
I don't think the issue is that rain damages the PP, only that it stops it from working, if it 'generally works just fine' mine must be exceptionally faulty, as I get a spotty readings every time even in light rain, some of which wildly over or underestimate my output, meaning I have to throw the ride away, along with all the accumulated distance.
Velocomp wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:08 am
One of the things I've been doing, on a daily basis, for the past 7 months, is riding with a PowerPod and a DFPM, and comparing their readings after every ride. They are extremely close, within a couple of watts. Most certainly, if I change ride positions, the numbers will diverge some, but that's how we measure CdA! :-)
This serves to assist my main point, in that you can't be 'sure' unless you have a frame of reference, most people buy a PP because they can't afford a DFPM, and they can't 'tune' it unless they do.

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by viniga » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:10 am

Hey,

Basically the conclusion I have come to is that I can use the PP as a reliable indicator of power when using my TT bike in dry conditions. With a bit of additional effort and on the appropriate type of ride, also in dry conditions, I can also get a fair indication of power on my road bike now I know what to look for.

My main annoyance is the discovery of the sensitivity to the wet - after purchase - when I live in a wet climate. BTW that 120k ride was in variable conditions, wet in the hills, dry in the valleys, and John was correct in that the wind port did clear itself. My issue on the ride is that when I looked down at the power I could not be sure whether the reading was affected or not - (except when it was obviously mega out). That's why I turned the data off from my head unit.

I don't think the PP is a bad bit of kit and it looks like the aeropod will be really cool (when combined with a DFPM) BUT I do now regret not having waited saved the pennies and purchased a DFPM first.

@darthmonkey the IQ2 looks interesting but its still not in production I think (and I also think the price is still in kickstarter type territory) and looking at DCRainmakers article it will likely have quirks too. But the general DFPM price trend is downward, I'll be watching.

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by Velocomp » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:34 am

1) iqsquare does not yet exist. In fact, no one knows if it works; no one has seen any data from it; no one knows its reliability; not a single unit has been shipped; there has not been a single review of the product.

The one thing that is known is that the Kickstarter price of the both-leg iqsquare is $334; PowerPod Lite is $199. Not even close.

2) We know what people ask about, on the forum, in emails to us, and in phone calls. It isn't about spending weekends with calibrations.

3) Every time DC Rainmaker does a power meter review, he compares the performance of the product he is testing (including PowerPod) to other power meters on his bike. This is practical.

Through the years we have seen literally have thousands of comparisons, both from our own testing and from customers.

4) Price is only one factor. Customers buy PowerPod because it moves easily from bike to bike, because it doesn't require swapping-out bike components, because it measures the output of both legs, and because it is affordable.
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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by darthmonkey » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:36 am

First, apologies for hijacking the post, I promise I'll stop commenting as soon as I see a counterpoint I agree with.
Velocomp wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:34 am
1) iqsquare does not yet exist. In fact, no one knows if it works; no one has seen any data from it; no one knows its reliability; not a single unit has been shipped; there has not been a single review of the product.
The one thing that is known is that the Kickstarter price of the both-leg iqsquare is $334; PowerPod Lite is $199. Not even close.
You could potentially argue that it's not technically 'out' for delivery, even if you can order it now, and receive it in two months, but that would be splitting hairs.
As for no reviews, (yet) you're absolutely correct. I imagine they wouldn't attempt to release a device which didn't remotely work, but my point was that as a DFPM, it doesn't guess at the watts, it knows.
What you can't argue, is the price. Please ensure you're comparing like for like, not lite version vs double leg DFPM.
PowerPod: $379 AU
iQSquare both legs: $418 AU Not even clo..oh hang on, pretty close.
Velocomp wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:34 am
2) We know what people ask about, on the forum, in emails to us, and in phone calls. It isn't about spending weekends with calibrations.
Unfortunately for me it is, which you'd know if you conducted a customer survey, or read my other posts.
Velocomp wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:34 am
3) Every time DC Rainmaker does a power meter review, he compares the performance of the product he is testing (including PowerPod) to other power meters on his bike. This is practical.
Through the years we have seen literally have thousands of comparisons, both from our own testing and from customers.
Again, against known working DFPMs, which are known constants, against which the PP has been correctly calibrated.

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by Velocomp » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:22 am

PP Lite is a both-leg power meter (every product we make is). It's AU price is $276.

Companies won't sell or release a power meter that does not work? Really? Google these: "Limits", "Brim Brothers", "AroFly", "PowerCal", "Polar CS600", "Polar/Keo pedals", "Ergomo"; this is only a partial list.

Power meters are easy to dream-up but extremely difficult to get to work. Best wishes to all new entrants, but the proof is in the pudding.

Finally: all power meters require setup, calibration, and recalibration. Ray followed our instructions. He liked the results.
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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by the shovel » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:42 pm

I had problems with water, then sealant from a tubeless tire puncture, getting into my PowerPod.

Solution: Move the PowerPod out of the spray trajectory. I've simply mounted my K-Edge on the left side of my handlebars adjacent to the stem. This moves the PowerPod out of the water stream coming off the front tire.

I ride in North Vancouver, which is cold and rainy in the winter. Fenders help a great deal. I wouldn't ride through the winter without them.

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by the shovel » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:46 pm

darthmonkey wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:36 am
my point was that as a DFPM, it doesn't guess at the watts, it knows.
Technically, no. Power meters do not measure watts. They measure strain and convert it to watts. It's just that the conversion formulae are a lot simpler than those the PowerPod uses.

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by viniga » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:02 am

@theshovel, yup thanks I learned this the hard way and I have moved the PP away from the centre. But I am still getting issues with water /road debris blocking the port.

My annoyance is that there was no indication of this problem in the setup instructions or advice.

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by Velocomp » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:42 pm

Right now, TV says there is a hurricane that is aimed to residents in South Carolina.

Should the weather forecasters also post a warning that it might strike south Florida? Though that outcome is possible, they aren't doing it, because the odds are low.

Similarly, we don't know how to appropriately "indicate" every potential problem.
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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by viniga » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:21 am

Really??

I think overall I have been pretty fair. The PP has strengths and weaknesses. As a business you want to emphasise the strengths, I get that. But I think you also need to acknowledge a weakness. I'm not sending mine back (close run thing) I might even buy the Aeropod. But it has been a frustrating and more costly than expected journey. Indeed the special duel mount I purchased placed the PP in a more central stem position.

Perhaps I'm unusual... but I know I'm not unique, so if it helps inform others who live in a similar climate then good.

OK, I'll take your analogy, on the basis of observations so far I predict that the next time I cycle in the rain that my powerpoint wind port will become blocked with 90% certainty.

I think you know that too.

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by spangelsaregreat » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:27 am

Viniga

Also being from Scotland I have had similar problems to you with the wind port. It has not been a issue on every wet ride, I find the smirry light rain the worst. Having the option to now turn the PowerPod off (5 presses of the button) means I can just revert back to heart rate on these rides. It was a limitation I was aware of when I bought it.

Its a shame John and Velo Comp couldn't provide a pitot tube adaptor for PowerPod as I don't want to buy an AeroPod to find it has the same issue (though John I would be happy to take a unit to test for you in rainy conditions if you want!!).

Overall I think John is reasonably honest in his replies, though he does sometimes provide obscure justifications, about PowerPod's limitations. He is right to point out no other electronic bike device company fronts up on a forum when users post problems.

PowerPod does have limitations (rain, downhills, initial setup complexity) but overall I am happy with the product.

Regards

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by viniga » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:50 am

Thanks spanglesaregreat, constructive post. Glad to hear someone else in the country has one!

I didn't know you could turn it off that way, noted.

I have found that situations where the front wheel kicks up a lot of water, either in heavy rain or fast descending on wet roads will almost always block it. Moving it to the side has reduced this chance but it still depends on the wind direction and on a long enough ride it will happen.

My most recent problematic ride actually had climbs into smirr and fast descents on wet roads into dry valleys. Given the design, and with what I now know I think it actually coped well... but at the time I was turning the air blue.

And yes, John has been great, without his replies this would have went back already. And I can +1 on the Aeropod testing... can't get much trickier conditions than Scotland in the Winter.

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by flahutewannabe » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:01 pm

Interesting following this thread. I vacillate on my confidence in the PP (the downhill issue, trying to understand implications of hoods vs drops while doing longer intervals to a specific but I''n not hijacking the thread for that). I do continue to use the PP, and have thought about the Aeropod upgrade offer.

But the best part of this thread is as a north-central US guy (Wisconsin) I learned a new word -- smirr. Can hardly wait to use it! (not really, prefer riding in perfect weather :D )

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by Velocomp » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:11 pm

flahutewannabe wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:01 pm


But the best part of this thread is as a north-central US guy (Wisconsin) I learned a new word -- smirr. Can hardly wait to use it! (not really, prefer riding in perfect weather :D )
Agreed; smirr is going to be a word we will try to use in future revisions of our instructions. :-)
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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by flahutewannabe » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:18 pm

Velocomp wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:11 pm

Agreed; smirr is going to be a word we will try to use in future revisions of our instructions. :-)
I like your style; two thumbs up! :lol:

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Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by darthmonkey » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:51 am

Velocomp wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:22 am
PP Lite is a both-leg power meter (every product we make is). It's AU price is $276.
Nice, I wish I'd bought the lite version if it's exactly the same as my PP for half the price.
Velocomp wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:22 am
Companies won't sell or release a power meter that does not work? Really? Google these: "Limits", "Brim Brothers", "AroFly", "PowerCal", "Polar CS600", "Polar/Keo pedals", "Ergomo"; this is only a partial list.
Power meters are easy to dream-up but extremely difficult to get to work. Best wishes to all new entrants, but the proof is in the pudding.
To be fair, I didn't say "Companies won't sell or release a power meter that does not work", I said
wrote:"I imagine they wouldn't attempt to release a device which didn't remotely work"
and
wrote:"..but my point was that as a DFPM, it doesn't guess at the watts, it knows."
To apply the level of pedanticism to the post as I'm receiving, 'it knows' is clearly a summary of the method a DFPM takes to measure Watts, of course it actually 'measures' the watts like the PP, but that's where the comparison ends, for DFPMs which work well, they need calibration, but not as I've been experiencing re-calibration using complicated software when I put a new set of tyres on, or start using the drops more for example.

I did Goole all of those companies, thanks for the lists, here is what I found (specifically relating to accuracy):
Limits: Appears to work for the most part, with some drop-outs (sound familiar?).
Brim Brothers: "it’s a bit randomly high and low at times" matching for the most part (sound familiar?).
AroFly: Wildly off, a non-starter in accuracy.
PowerCal: Appears from my quick Googling to be a HR Running PM, not really relevant in this forum
Polar CS600: "it’s nowhere near as accurate as a PowerTap hub or SRM cranks", which is sort of expected from a $150 device.
Polar/Keo pedals: <DC RainMaker> "Keo power system trial, I had assumed that accuracy might be an issue – but in reality, it really didn’t seem to be." This would dissolve your point, but they are much more expensive, so we can exclude them from the list entirely.
Ergomo: Difficult to find any actual comparion reviews, as such, also excluded.

Conclusion: Of the two which are comparible to the PP (Limits and BrimB), it appears that any power meter below a certain price point is unreliable at best, this includes the PP (Try a MAP5 ride and see for yourself). This lends itself quite well to my statement "I imagine they wouldn't attempt to release a device which didn't remotely work".



P.S. As we're being snippy, the phrase is 'The proof of the pudding is in the eating'.
Velocomp wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:22 am
Finally: all power meters require setup, calibration, and recalibration. Ray followed our instructions. He liked the results.
Who's Ray? Is he one of the tens of thousands of mysteriously silent customers who you know for a fact are objectively happy with their PPs?

viniga
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:22 pm

Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by viniga » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:23 am

Suggested conditions for Aeropod testing :)

http://scottishsceptic.co.uk/2014/11/28 ... -for-snow/

Annoyed that 'dreich' isn't in the list...

@darthmonkey - I think Ray is DC Rainmaker.

Velocomp
Velocomp CEO
Posts: 5193
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:43 am

Re: Struggling with the PowerPod

Post by Velocomp » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:40 am

darthmonkey wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:51 am
Velocomp wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:22 am

I did Google all of those companies, thanks for the lists, here is what I found (specifically relating to accuracy):
Limits: Appears to work for the most part, with some drop-outs (sound familiar?).
Brim Brothers: "it’s a bit randomly high and low at times" matching for the most part (sound familiar?).
AroFly: Wildly off, a non-starter in accuracy.
PowerCal: Appears from my quick Googling to be a HR Running PM, not really relevant in this forum
Polar CS600: "it’s nowhere near as accurate as a PowerTap hub or SRM cranks", which is sort of expected from a $150 device.
Polar/Keo pedals: <DC RainMaker> "Keo power system trial, I had assumed that accuracy might be an issue – but in reality, it really didn’t seem to be." This would dissolve your point, but they are much more expensive, so we can exclude them from the list entirely.
Ergomo: Difficult to find any actual comparion reviews, as such, also excluded.

Conclusion: Of the two which are comparible to the PP (Limits and BrimB), it appears that any power meter below a certain price point is unreliable at best, this includes the PP (Try a MAP5 ride and see for yourself). This lends itself quite well to my statement "I imagine they wouldn't attempt to release a device which didn't remotely work".



P.S. As we're being snippy, the phrase is 'The proof of the pudding is in the eating'.
Velocomp wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:22 am
Finally: all power meters require setup, calibration, and recalibration. Ray followed our instructions. He liked the results.
Who's Ray? Is he one of the tens of thousands of mysteriously silent customers who you know for a fact are objectively happy with their PPs?
All the companies below "released" (i.e. sold or sold and shipped) products that "do not remotely work":

Limits: collected over $500K on indiegogo, only a few shipped. Out of business
Brim Brothers: collected $200K on Kickstarter, never shipped. Out of business
AroFly: $169 "Revolutionary" power meter from a major company. product does not work
PowerCal: Introduced by Saris/PowerTap as a $299 "power meter", measures heart rate. Accuracy is a joke. Now sells (poorly) for $69 (as a heart rate strap)
Polar CS600: discontinued due to poor technology/performance
Polar/Keo pedals (generation 1): discontinued due to poor technology/performance
Ergomo: Poor performance/reliability. Out of business.

Ray is Ray Maker, aka DC Rainmaker

This mini-debate isn't helpful, so I am going to move on.
John Hamann

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