Suddenly un-paired PP

Post Reply
User avatar
darthmonkey
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:11 pm

Suddenly un-paired PP

Post by darthmonkey » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:32 pm

As I've been a little prolix in my description in an attemtpt to cover all angles, I've decided to put a very quick overview of the issue at the top, if an answer is discovered or provided, I'll add that too for convenience.

Quick overview:
My PowerPod is refusing to be detected by my Garmin 800, even though nothing has changed for one day. I suspect it's forgotten my profile, there's a fault with it, or it's not correctly telling me it needs charging.

Solution:
As promised, the solution to this post... well, it appears that faffing around with it, and plugging it into your computer 'fixes' the issue.
In short, if it fails to pair while you're out on a ride, you're stuffed.

Prolix version:
I've had a few issues with my PP recently, so I'm starting to suspect there's an issue with it, but I'll describe the fault.
Due to the issues I've had, my intention was to ensure my bike with new Garmin sensors was set up correctly, attempt a calibration, and use it for a week.
Setup:
I set all the old devices to '0' for my bike profile, ensured I saved it to the current top profile1 in Isaac, and attached the PP to my bike.
It started flashing as though it wanted to go on a calibration ride, so I set off, and completed one, turning around at 50w.
This was a shorter than normal calibration ride, and if it worked for the PP it certainly didn't work for Isaac. I don't care about calibration at this point as I only have two hours this weekend to try and pair the devices.
Upon returning, and plugging the PP back in, it indeed discovered my devices, and added the numbers to the correct PP profile, job done, and only one hour in. It may be worth noting that the id numbers for the speed and cadence sensors differ from what my Garmin 800 says the speed and cadence id numbers are, even though my heart rate monitor id numbers are the same (I suspect it's due to them being new and having longer numbers).
Test:
Although it appeared to be working, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, so I went for a ride the next day, and the speed and cadence sensors were indeed picked up successfully. The day after that, the same all good for the ride to and from work.
Today however, the PP decided that it no longer wanted to pair with the Garmin. When stationary I pressed the button as usual (to be honest I don't usually wait for it to go solid green before taking off, the Garmin usually tells me it's paried, regardless of whether I'm moving or not). This morning I didn't do the 'mash the PP button' routine I've come to know and love, I left it for 10 mins, pressed it again while stationary, it flashed nine times (no red) and went out, I did this again 5 and then 10 mins later, all to no avail. I did notice however, that while riding over a bump near the end of my 60min ride and a good 20 mins after the last press, the Garmin detected the PP, I laughed imagining a 3 minute power record, but alas, I didn't even get that, as it dropped immediately.
Question:
As I've eluded to, I suspect the PP is 'losing' my profile and refusing to pair with my devices, but the 'one second detection' seems to point to a faulty device. I've had no notification that the PP has run out of battery power, which may also prevent it from pairing, although I haven't charged it for three days, it's not flashing red, and the Garmin hasn't shown 'low power' for it as it previously has.
Last edited by darthmonkey on Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Velocomp
Velocomp CEO
Posts: 5234
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:43 am

Re: Suddenly un-paired PP

Post by Velocomp » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:22 am

Profile data is stored in non-volatile memory. PP does not "forget" a profile, even if PP battery dies.

Wireless IDs can be different in Isaac profile, as compared to Garmin. Both are "correct", but the only sure-fire way to get sensor profiles into PP is with a sensor pairing.

Before starting your ride, wake up your speed sensor, then click the PP button. It will show solid green ONLY when it successfully reads the speed sensor. PP will start transmitting power information ONLY after the light is solid green. PP will continue to transmit power information after the solid green light goes out.

I have no idea how Garmin indicates successful sensor pairing, but the fact is that, unless PP light is solid green, Garmin cannot pick up PP signal.

Please post a ride file; maybe that will shed some light on things.
John Hamann

User avatar
darthmonkey
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:11 pm

Re: Suddenly un-paired PP

Post by darthmonkey » Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:03 am

Unfortunately, as the previous message eludes to, I'm unable to post any ride file for the period of time the PP wasn't pairing. Possibly due to the fact it wasn't recording.
I can however, state that it's 'working' again after plugging it back into my computer. I did manually switch profiles to ensure it was on the correct one, and it paired first time the next day.
Since then, I've also managed to re-pair my other two bikes, but I now have questions about the calibration being too short for Isaac, which I'll add to another post.

Velocomp
Velocomp CEO
Posts: 5234
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:43 am

Re: Suddenly un-paired PP

Post by Velocomp » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:47 am

If I understand your post, you are using Isaac to manually select the bike profile, and that when you select the correct profile for your bike, all is well. Is this correct?

Also, you have two other profiles for two other bikes, correct?

Three total profiles?

If these three profiles all have unique speed sensor IDs, then PP should be able to automatically figure out which bike you're riding, as long as the bike you're riding has its speed sensor ON when you turn on PP, and the bikes you're not riding have their speed sensors turned OFF when you wake up PP.

If by accident PP picks up a speed sensor from one of your other bikes (maybe that sensor was still on), just ride away from the "wrong" bike. In about a minute PP will switch over to the bike you're riding.
John Hamann

User avatar
darthmonkey
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:11 pm

Re: Suddenly un-paired PP

Post by darthmonkey » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:51 am

To clarify, I do have three profiles, all of which I've had to go through, and remove the IDs from, then re-pair. This was expected due to my adding new devices to an existing bike.
They appear to be working now, but to reiterate, Day 1 - working fine, day 2 - working fine, day 3 - not working no matter how much pressing or faffing, day 4 (after plugging into computer) - working.
I didn't use any of my other bikes in this time, and the PP was only switched on when it was 22km away from the nearest next bike.

Velocomp
Velocomp CEO
Posts: 5234
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:43 am

Re: Suddenly un-paired PP

Post by Velocomp » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:05 am

I am confused.

You say "they appear to be working now", but then you say Day 1, 2, 3, fine, day 4, nothing.

So, are things still not working, even after they appear to be working?

What is it you do when you plug PP into your computer to get it working again? Are you manually selecting the profile? If so, on what profile was PP before you switched it? What FW are you using?
John Hamann

User avatar
darthmonkey
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:11 pm

Re: Suddenly un-paired PP

Post by darthmonkey » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:02 am

Velocomp wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:05 am
I am confused.
You say "they appear to be working now", but then you say Day 1, 2, 3, fine, day 4, nothing.
This means that on previous days (1 - 3) the PP was working fine, but also on a previous day to today (day 4 we'll call it) the PP stopped working.
Velocomp wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:05 am
So, are things still not working, even after they appear to be working?
No, 'things' are now 'working' again, as stated, I plugged it into my computer the evening after no power being recorded on 'day 4', and on what I like to call 'day 5', it worked again.
Velocomp wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:05 am
What is it you do when you plug PP into your computer to get it working again? Are you manually selecting the profile? If so, on what profile was PP before you switched it? What FW are you using?
I did manually select the profile, I'm not sure which one it was on, as it shows 'automatic', only ensured that Isaac detected the PP (and before you ask, it did have a charge before I plugged it in).
I had previously manually selected a profile, but between days 1-4 it didn't come off my bike, and no other bikes were in the vicinity.
I'm using 'Firmware 640 ' I know because I've now got shorter o&b calibration rides.

Velocomp
Velocomp CEO
Posts: 5234
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:43 am

Re: Suddenly un-paired PP

Post by Velocomp » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:56 am

Hopefully this won't happen again, but if it does please do the following:

1) Connect PP to Isaac
2) Go to "Device/Set Active Profile in Device"
3) Make note of the profile number that is active in the Device, but do not select it. Select Cancel
4) Go to Edit/Edit Profiles.
5) Click "Extract from Device". This is the profile currently active and is highlighted in the window. Export this profile as "First active"
6) Now, select the profile of the bike to which your PP should have been be paired (in the Edit Profiles window, "Set Active Profile in Device". Select the profile number you want to be active)
7) Click "Extract From Device". You may be told this is a copy, but that's OK. Export this profile as "Should have been active"

Please post both profiles.

We will figure out what is going on.
John Hamann

User avatar
darthmonkey
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:11 pm

Re: Suddenly un-paired PP

Post by darthmonkey » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:06 pm

Ah, fantastic, a solution which makes complete sense.
Thanks for that, I'll give it a go next time I encounter it.

Post Reply