New User with Issues

[oik01]

So I just got a new power pod. I was super excited but have had a few hopefully minor setbacks. I will list them below. Hopefully you guys can help.

1- For some reason my Isaac software says my device is not enabled to allow downloads to Isaac. It caught me off-guard that important software isn't functional out of the box for the device and I may have to pay for it. But even trying to bypass that and access the data files for analysis on strava doesn't work because powerpod isn't showing as a USB/ disc on my mac. There is no way to see the files on the powerpod other than the fact that the files show up on a list when I open Isaac and click on download data ( it just doesn't let me download it).

2- The numbers I get may be too high? This is my first power meter so i am obviously not sure about this one but lets just say I am awfully suspicious something is off about the numbers. I gained access to the data through my cycling computer. I uploaded them to strava form my cycling computer and I was able to compare the values to both strava's estimate when the ride is uploaded without the powermeter data ( from my phone), and comparisons to other riders who rode the same track on the same day or during winter. ( wind conditions were average for the area/ winter).

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Screen Shot 2020-03-16 at 7.41.08 PM.png (141.89 KiB) Viewed 15263 times

You can see from the above attachments that riders much faster than me did the time with far less wattage. In-fact, even though i am average in weight ( 163 pounds), and the conditions were average for this year, very few racers either faster or slower did power values close to what powerpod thinks I did. You could come up with other theories like maybe I just expended wattage in the wrong parts of the track etc. I don't think thats the reason because I am relatively new to the sport and not as strong/ fast as others. Also it is unlikely that I would both produce higher powers and that I would be so inefficient so as to waste a third of my power to come up with the same race time as people with 200 watts ( mine was 300).

Now to figure out the issue I had hoped to see the Powerpod data. My computer ( data below) shows speed and altitude IT sees so its not helpful. I needed the powerpod data to compare to my computer data to figure out ... is the speed Powerpod is seeing off ( maybe my speedometer is wrong). Is the wind measurement off? Is the altitude off? But i can't access that data due to issue number 1.

Screen Shot 2020-03-16 at 8.03.33 PM.png (51.11 KiB) Viewed 15263 times

3. This is more related to the website. I kept going back and forth about getting this product. I ended up getting the refurbished unit on a budget. I had seen the BLE upgrade key online and thought that if mine didn't work with my smartphone I would just upgrade then. I think my misunderstanding came about from seeing you mention specifically that powerpodlight was excluded. I did not imagine why my powerpod would not work since as far as i could tell it would be a regular powerpod just refurbished. Now after getting it I find out it doesn't work because you guys blocked refurbished units. I think it would be helpful for you guys to add a note specifying powerpod refurbished as well as light so that others don't fall into the same trap like me. I emailed you guys'/ tech support to help me figure out if there is a way to bypass bluetooth and still get it to connect to my smartphone as that is an essential feature for me

[Velocomp]

1) Please email technicalsupport@velocomp.com for next steps.

2) We don't transfer files as a USB drive.

3) Which rider is you?

4) It's impossible to tell from your data what is going on in enough detail to reply to your questions.

[oik01]

I emailed technical support over the weekend re- the blue tooth issue. Will email with this full post again today ( likely at night with information about what happens after another calibration and another ride)because I have already sent out emails and don't want to flood them with emails.

I am Omar Kreidieh ( the rider with the 300 watt effort and time similar to 200 watt or less efforts )

I was thinking that maybe it was the calibration ride so i might try and redo that today. When I did the calibration two things happened. It didn't stop at 50 so I kept going till 52 then stopped and turned around ( i figured whats a 2 percent difference lol but maybe that did something). I had to slow down at an intersection for a car but I never came to a full stop. I will try and calibrate this time at a normal riding speed on the park track. Hopefully powerpod stops at 50 this time around or I am alert enough to turn in time lol

[Velocomp]

I emailed technical support over the weekend re- the blue tooth issue. Will email with this full post again today ( likely at night with information about what happens after another calibration and another ride)because I have already sent out emails and don't want to flood them with emails.

I am Omar Kreidieh ( the rider with the 300 watt effort and time similar to 200 watt or less efforts )

I was thinking that maybe it was the calibration ride so i might try and redo that today. When I did the calibration two things happened. It didn't stop at 50 so I kept going till 52 then stopped and turned around ( i figured whats a 2 percent difference lol but maybe that did something). I had to slow down at an intersection for a car but I never came to a full stop. I will try and calibrate this time at a normal riding speed on the park track. Hopefully powerpod stops at 50 this time around or I am alert enough to turn in time lol

We say specifically on our website that refurbished units are not upgradeable to enable iOS/Android transmission capability. Please provide the serial number of your unit.

[oik01]

You do mention that. I just didn't see it there when I first went through the options. The upgrade sale page doesn't mention refurbished units but mentions the powerpod light. Im not saying it was your mistake it was totally mine just making a suggestion to add this on both.

Do we get Isaac software access ( to download the file not necessarily analyze it) with powerpod v3 light? If so, would it be possible for me to return and pay the price difference for the v3 light?

Serial number is 01-19-16-08-05-02-A0-00-01-01-03-02-BB-7E-10-AE

[Velocomp]

Your unit does not transmit power data to your phone, and it is missing the chip that enables it.

We will update our page to make sure this is 100% clear.

On your unit you can get access to your complete ride files (not just the first 10 minutes) with the 64 bit unlock key.

You can certainly change over to the V3 Lite, which will transmit the power data to your phone apps. The V3 will also have the 64 bit key included at no extra charge, but you'll only see the first 10 minutes of each ride in the V3 ride file.

[oik01]

Thanks for replying.
So the v3 powerpod light would have bluetooth but Isaac only for 10 minutes of my ride? Would I be able to buy the unlock key then or is full isaac something that would require the 100 dollar key to make it a full powerpod? It sounds like the isaac data is important for troubleshooting stuff?

I recalibrated today. Things went better this time because it actually stopped at 50 and changed the color so I turned etc. I did it in a park so there were no cars to slow down for but the caveat was the park is an open area and always windy. You can see the ride data below and I think the average values look more reasonable? No 300 watt average ride for a beginner.

There were 2 obvious issues that came out though.

Issue 1: In one area which was a slight decent with a strong cross-wind the power seemed very overestimated. See this image to see the location.

Screen Shot 2020-03-17 at 8.30.29 PM.png (399.25 KiB) Viewed 15204 times

In another region opposite this one on the way back, the power seemed very under-estimated:

Screen Shot 2020-03-17 at 8.51.39 PM.png (355.97 KiB) Viewed 15204 times

In both areas the wind felt like a strong cross wind. I had no issues in the parts where there was mainly a headwind or tailwind. Because it was mostly at cross wind areas I stopped in the middle thinking maybe the device was angled so that it was facing the cross wind more than me in area 1 and less than me in area 2. On inspection it seemed very close to parallel to my bike but I tried to optimize it as much as possible anyway. The numbers maybe got better in one part or it was a placebo effect. But I was definitely still getting the low values on the way back despite the steady effort.

Issue 2: When I would stop for a bit and start again, the power readings being transmitted were ridiculous. Like 900 watts, 800 watts. you can clearly see the stand-out spikes on the full file.

Screen Shot 2020-03-17 at 8.48.13 PM.png (91.45 KiB) Viewed 15204 times

[oik01]

Also in retrospect, my powerpod sits slanted a bit vertically ... do you think this may have something to do w the issues? ( Not sure how this would come into play in only some of the segments though)

IMG_20200317_214228.jpg (114.38 KiB) Viewed 15198 times

[Velocomp]

This is your problem...the instructions say that PP should be approximately level to the ground. Yours is pointed way up in the air; this will cause calibration failures!

1) Reattach PP so that the word "PowerPod" is approximately level to the ground beneath it (it does not need to be exactly level).
2) Press-hold PP button for about 12 seconds, until light goes out temporarily, then turns back on. Release the button. This does a hard-reset of the device
3) Pair PP to your speed sensor.
4) Do a new calibration ride and all should be well.

I note that you seem to want to use PP with your smartphone app. Your refurbished PP won't transmit power data to a smartphone, but it will work just fine with any ANT+ bike computer.

Yes, V3 Lite will transmit power data to your smartphone

[oik01]

Thanks for replying.
I adjuste the position as advised and recalibrated. The first ride yesterday went well ( average winds 2 mph). Im not experienced with powermeters so can't claim to be 100% sure though.

The second ride was in windy atmosphere again and the same issues resurfaced. In the same spot I was having much higher reads than expected and then the opposite area was getting much lower reads. In fact in the decent with the strong wind and high reads, I went several times without pedaling ( had a cadence meter on this time), and was still shown power readings sometimes up to the 150s w/ 0 cadence. I have attached the two rides below and a picture of the powerpod now. Please advise.

Windy ride. Notice power values up to 150 during the short decent with wind and 0 cadence, dropping HR.

Screen Shot 2020-03-20 at 8.30.31 PM.png (88.74 KiB) Viewed 15089 times

In other areas my power registers low numbers, down to 0 at times despite constant effort, similar cadence, and HR that is similar to average for this ride:

Screen Shot 2020-03-20 at 8.55.18 PM.png (307.41 KiB) Viewed 15087 times

Non windy ride which seemed ok:

Screen Shot 2020-03-20 at 8.28.46 PM.png (103.68 KiB) Viewed 15089 times

[Velocomp]

Trying to diagnose your detailed questions with the graphs you've provided is nearly impossible.

There is only one obvious problem: it appears that your cadence sensor is not paired to PP. I say this because, at mile 7.7 of your first graph, cadence is zero but power is not. If the cadence sensor is paired then power would be forced to zero.

In order to provide the kind of answers you're seeking, you'll need to download and install Isaac software. This will allow you to see wind and slope data along with power data.

[oik01]

I have it downloaded but I don't have access to download my rides. Honestly I originally didn't want to pay more before the product is working out of principle because I felt that if isac is needed to properly calibrate/ trouble shoot it should've been provided for free.

In any case... its taken a week so far and I am super frustrated so I bought the upgrade. Once given access I will download the rides and post here.
Cadence meter was new. Im not sure why it didn't pick it up but will try again today. It wasn't there during my calibration ride. Should I calibrate again today? I tried the full reset method you posted but when I look at ride log on powerpod the rides from before the reset were still visible is that normal?

Also when you say that it should force power zero during zero cadence does it just force the power read or does it also try to adjust the variables such as aero etc so that the calculated power is zero as well ( not just forced to show it even though using the variables it calculates a bigger number)?

I will post rides here once you give me a key to access isaac.

thanks

[oik01]

thanks.
Windy ride with issues: Power too high in windy descent, too low in opposite side of track:

Velocomp_03_20_2020_1824_15_Miles.ibr

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Ride that felt ok:

Velocomp_03_19_2020_1702_14_Miles.ibr

(145.08 KiB) Downloaded 315 times

Not sure if this would be helpful but I was doing laps around the same track. The elevation should change through each lap but go back to the same baseline whereas it trends down in the file?

Also I can see the powerspikes here that I was talking about that come whenever I restart a ride and it seems to correspond to spikes in detected slope for some reason?


Is there a way to make sure in future if HR and Cadence meter are appropriately connected to the device?

[Velocomp]

1) Your cadence and HR sensors are not paired. I can see this because their signals are not shown in your ride file. Also, their sensor IDs don't appear in your profile Edit/Edit Profiles/Extract from Ride file

2) If weather changes then you will see the elevation drift. This is in your ride file

3) Power spikes are happening because your mounting position is changing between rides. You can leave your PP attached to your bike between rides (this is what I do) or you will need to be very careful that you reattach PP in the SAME angle. This is nearly impossible, so you may see watts spikes at the beginning of your ride

4) Do a new sensor pairing and then cal ride. This will add cadence/HR sensors to your ride file and make downhills better when you're not pedaling.

5) Your 3/20 ride shows huge headwinds/tailwinds. Your power responds accordingly.

[Velocomp]

I have it downloaded but I don't have access to download my rides. Honestly I originally didn't want to pay more before the product is working out of principle because I felt that if isac is needed to properly calibrate/ trouble shoot it should've been provided for free.

In any case... its taken a week so far and I am super frustrated so I bought the upgrade. Once given access I will download the rides and post here.
Cadence meter was new. Im not sure why it didn't pick it up but will try again today. It wasn't there during my calibration ride. Should I calibrate again today? I tried the full reset method you posted but when I look at ride log on powerpod the rides from before the reset were still visible is that normal?

Also when you say that it should force power zero during zero cadence does it just force the power read or does it also try to adjust the variables such as aero etc so that the calculated power is zero as well ( not just forced to show it even though using the variables it calculates a bigger number)?

I will post rides here once you give me a key to access isaac.

thanks

For products manufactured after 12/1/2019 Isaac continues to be free. Your PP was built 4 years ago; as we say on our order page, we were forced by Apple to upgrade Isaac and it cost us a lot of money; we are asking legacy products to help defray the costs.

When cadence is zero power is forced to zero. Profile variables are not adjusted.

[oik01]

1) Your cadence and HR sensors are not paired. I can see this because their signals are not shown in your ride file. Also, their sensor IDs don't appear in your profile Edit/Edit Profiles/Extract from Ride file

2) If weather changes then you will see the elevation drift. This is in your ride file

3) Power spikes are happening because your mounting position is changing between rides. You can leave your PP attached to your bike between rides (this is what I do) or you will need to be very careful that you reattach PP in the SAME angle. This is nearly impossible, so you may see watts spikes at the beginning of your ride

4) Do a new sensor pairing and then cal ride. This will add cadence/HR sensors to your ride file and make downhills better when you're not pedaling.

5) Your 3/20 ride shows huge headwinds/tailwinds. Your power responds accordingly.

I understand that it is responding but this response is obviously exaggerated if using its formula it calculates power as high as 150 with 0 cadence ( as seen in my cycle meter). This can't be normal function and if it is then its obviously not going to be accurate in those conditions. Forcing a 0 power value during 0 cadence when variables calculate a higher power only hides the discrepancy/ inaccuracy but doesn't remove it when cadence is not 0. Is there a way to make it less sensitive to the wind and to do so accurately so true power is reflected throughout?

[oik01]

[/quote]

For products manufactured after 12/1/2019 Isaac continues to be free. Your PP was built 4 years ago; as we say on our order page, we were forced by Apple to upgrade Isaac and it cost us a lot of money; we are asking legacy products to help defray the costs.

When cadence is zero power is forced to zero. Profile variables are not adjusted.
[/quote]

The Powerpod was made 4 years ago but bought 2 weeks ago as refurbished. I think most of us expect refurbished products to be working products. If it is bought 2 weeks ago from you as refurbished ( not just used) I would expect it should be working out of the box. Just my 2 cents

[Velocomp]

Actually, I agree with you; your refurbished PP should have come with the unlock key installed in it.

Your purchase price has been refunded in full.

[Velocomp]

I understand that it is responding but this response is obviously exaggerated if using its formula it calculates power as high as 150 with 0 cadence ( as seen in my cycle meter). This can't be normal function and if it is then its obviously not going to be accurate in those conditions. Forcing a 0 power value during 0 cadence when variables calculate a higher power only hides the discrepancy/ inaccuracy but doesn't remove it when cadence is not 0. Is there a way to make it less sensitive to the wind and to do so accurately so true power is reflected throughout?

Please do a new sensor pairing and new cal ride. Right now it is premature to draw conclusions.

[oik01]

Thank you!
I am afraid if I have it detect my cadence sensor it will make it more difficult for me to detect the discrepancy. Right now cruising down with 0 cadence and looking at power is an easy way to see the magnitude of the discrepancy. I don't expect it to be perfect, just not 150 watts imperfect. I was thinking maybe I need to change settings so it thinks I am more aero so that the headwinds and tailwinds count less ? Perhaps the most logical way to do so would be to take a cruise-down period , record the activity with calculated power >100, then adjust the setting to the appropriate aero value that would make calculated power 0? Is there a way to do so?
Obviously you guys are the experts so if you think that another calibration ride is all thats needed I can do so but I just don't see how it will fix it if cadence doesn't help calibration settings but only changes the values I see ( almost hiding a problem) .

[Velocomp]

I suggest you do a new sensor pairing and cal ride. If you want to do something different that is up to you, but I am unable to provide you any additional guidance from the data you have provided.

[oik01]

I suggest you do a new sensor pairing and cal ride. If you want to do something different that is up to you, but I am unable to provide you any additional guidance from the data you have provided.

Thanks for the help. Recalibrated and did a ride. Felt much more consistent. This time will keep the powerpod on the bike lol. Connected to it on the bike as we speak !

There were definitely places/ times when I thought my perceived effort was less than power shown but that could well be my inexperience. In general though the trend seemed to be more consistently related to my effort.
I have attached the file. I will keep an eye on how things change with different winds etc and compare to power values others get with similar times on strava. If any issues will ask here.

Velocomp_03_21_2020_1545_16_Miles.csv

(352.44 KiB) Downloaded 247 times

[Velocomp]

I suggest you do a new sensor pairing and cal ride. If you want to do something different that is up to you, but I am unable to provide you any additional guidance from the data you have provided.

Thanks for the help. Recalibrated and did a ride. Felt much more consistent. This time will keep the powerpod on the bike lol. Connected to it on the bike as we speak !

There were definitely places/ times when I thought my perceived effort was less than power shown but that could well be my inexperience. In general though the trend seemed to be more consistently related to my effort.
I have attached the file. I will keep an eye on how things change with different winds etc and compare to power values others get with similar times on strava. If any issues will ask here.


Velocomp_03_21_2020_1545_16_Miles.csv

Please post .ibr ride file...

[oik01]

Ugh sorry, didn't realize I did that my bad!
Yesterday's ride. Felt mostly reasonable I thought, maybe a bit high in certain segments but im not sure might just be me:

Velocomp_03_21_2020_1545_16_Miles.ibr

(191.41 KiB) Downloaded 329 times

Today I went out again. This time felt like the power values were a bit higher than expected? I was on a flat and felt like I was barely doing work yet would get power values in the high 100s and then a bit of work easily get in 200s on a flat and speeds that aren't that fast... is that normal? It somehow averaged down to 146 watts for the full ride but still when I consider my average speed was just 14 miles and it was mostly flat I wonder if again the numbers are a bit high ( especially overestimating perhaps with the wind or when going faster). Also notice again the high power values at the start even though I never moved the powerpod since the last ride. Been connecting my USB to it while it rests on the bike. Ignore the bit at the end, it seems to have kept recording with the bike on the rack on my car.

Velocomp_03_22_2020_1701_22_Miles.ibr

(316.09 KiB) Downloaded 250 times

[oik01]

Looking at the file now myself

Second ride starts off with power way over and it correlates with the device thinking there is a steep slope when there is none. It fixes for this quickly, and the end result is near 0 work done against gravity which makes sense given I start and end at the same point. I guess it must mean that the device somehow moved though? Another calibration ride it is ?
I think I will start using a leveler to ensure the PP is at the right angle and unchanged from now on :S
If this is important: First ride is laps on a track ( 1.26 miles), second is roaming about and ends in the same spot I started.

[Velocomp]

When you see steep slopes at the beginning of a ride, either positive or negative, this means that PP has shifted in position between rides, or that PP received data after the ride (such as might happen when PP is attached to a car after the ride ends).

A way to prevent the second problem is to click the button 5 times at the end of each ride. This records the ride file and turns the unit off.

You do not have to recalibrate your unit.

You seem to be quite curious about what PP is recording, and how it works. You might want to read the detailed Isaac manual, which will give you a lot of hints.

[Velocomp]

Ugh sorry, didn't realize I did that my bad!
Yesterday's ride. Felt mostly reasonable I thought, maybe a bit high in certain segments but im not sure might just be me:
Velocomp_03_21_2020_1545_16_Miles.ibr

Today I went out again. This time felt like the power values were a bit higher than expected? I was on a flat and felt like I was barely doing work yet would get power values in the high 100s and then a bit of work easily get in 200s on a flat and speeds that aren't that fast... is that normal? It somehow averaged down to 146 watts for the full ride but still when I consider my average speed was just 14 miles and it was mostly flat I wonder if again the numbers are a bit high ( especially overestimating perhaps with the wind or when going faster). Also notice again the high power values at the start even though I never moved the powerpod since the last ride. Been connecting my USB to it while it rests on the bike. Ignore the bit at the end, it seems to have kept recording with the bike on the rack on my car.

Velocomp_03_22_2020_1701_22_Miles.ibr

Looking at your 3/21 ride, which is in loops, your wind calibration might be too high. You can use the "Analyze/Check Calibration" feature to fix this.

[oik01]

Ugh sorry, didn't realize I did that my bad!
Yesterday's ride. Felt mostly reasonable I thought, maybe a bit high in certain segments but im not sure might just be me:
Velocomp_03_21_2020_1545_16_Miles.ibr

Today I went out again. This time felt like the power values were a bit higher than expected? I was on a flat and felt like I was barely doing work yet would get power values in the high 100s and then a bit of work easily get in 200s on a flat and speeds that aren't that fast... is that normal? It somehow averaged down to 146 watts for the full ride but still when I consider my average speed was just 14 miles and it was mostly flat I wonder if again the numbers are a bit high ( especially overestimating perhaps with the wind or when going faster). Also notice again the high power values at the start even though I never moved the powerpod since the last ride. Been connecting my USB to it while it rests on the bike. Ignore the bit at the end, it seems to have kept recording with the bike on the rack on my car.

Velocomp_03_22_2020_1701_22_Miles.ibr

Looking at your 3/21 ride, which is in loops, your wind calibration might be too high. You can use the "Analyze/Check Calibration" feature to fix this.

Awesomeness. I followed your instructions and did the analyze/ check calibration and sent the profile. Did a ride today and I think it was night and day. Made a lot more sense and I didn't feel the power value just jump from wind gusts but instead felt it much more closely reflected my effort so thank you.
You can see in the file that the initial ride slope was off ( as expected) but corrected quickly. I clicked the button 5 times after the ride this time. Now when I try to analyze the ride for calibration, the main difference it detects are for the fric and ride tilt. But it won't let me send it to my PP because the values are out of range. I looked up your manual and there is no explanation of how to bypass the out of range issue. Should I reposition or do something else?
Thanks again. You guys are awesome and so responsive and I can finally tell I am almost there. Actually even if it stays as is I don't mind it that much. It seems to correct for the tilt pretty quickly... Im impressed haha!

Velocomp_03_24_2020_1713_17_Miles.ibr

(189.29 KiB) Downloaded 269 times

[oik01]

When you see steep slopes at the beginning of a ride, either positive or negative, this means that PP has shifted in position between rides, or that PP received data after the ride (such as might happen when PP is attached to a car after the ride ends).

A way to prevent the second problem is to click the button 5 times at the end of each ride. This records the ride file and turns the unit off.

You do not have to recalibrate your unit.

You seem to be quite curious about what PP is recording, and how it works. You might want to read the detailed Isaac manual, which will give you a lot of hints.

Saw in isaac manual that you use average headwind of 0 in an out and back ride to calibrate wind. Im guessing that would mean the reported average wind speed is average over distance not time? ( because over time it wouldn't be 0 as we spend more time in the headwind than we do in the tailwind due to being slower cycling against headwind)?. Summary speed and power are averaged over time though?

[Velocomp]

Yes to both questions.