Calibration

David Lloyd · Post by **David Lloyd** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:34 am

I did my setup cal ride today with my new Newton. After the Newton indicated the calibration was finished (about 5km of riding) I just kept riding with the Newton still going for another 13km (wanted some data linked to my Garmin Edge using the GT firmware to make sure all working properly). When I downloaded the ride data to Isaac after fine tuning the calibration, I had two ride files - one seems to be for the cal ride and then another for the continuation of the ride (I am guessing that when I stopped to play with the Newton after the cal ride it closed the file and started a new trip). The problem is I noticed that Isaac seems to be indicating that it is interpreting the 13km ride as the cal ride - on the graphs it is indicated that the ride was out and back by marking "Start of Out", "Midpoint of O&B" and "End of Back" - the ride elevation profile does look symetrical because I did two laps of a park in the middle of it. There is no such marking of out and back on the actual cal ride file. I would just like to be sure that I have not somehow accidentally recalibrated the Newton, or is this something to do with the analyze ride feature? I have upload the two files "First Calibration" and "Test Ride". I also have a dumb question about the cal ride, which is why the "wind wrt ground" is constantly negative and didn't flip to positive when I turned around. I didn't think there was any wind and am wondering whether the axis may have been displaced because I started the calibration while rolling?
Advice much appreciated thanks.
David

Velocomp · Post by **Velocomp** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:05 am

Something is messed-up with your Cal Ride:

1) Your file is not marked "CalRide", as it should be. So, you should do a new cal ride.

2) In your profile your bike weight is given as -18 pounds. Not good!

Please do the following:

1) Press-hold the up arrow of your Newton to get into setup

2) Click the up arrow a few times, until you get the screen that says "Cal Ride"

3) Click the center button to do a new Cal Ride

4) After completing your ride, connect your Newton to your computer and launch Isaac

5) When prompted, enter in your rider information, making sure your entries are correct

That will fix the calibration problem.

Isaac is not interpreting the long ride as the cal ride; however, if you have the Automatically Analyze Route box checked in the Edit/Preferences section, then Isaac will find out-and-back sections of your route.

David Lloyd · Post by **David Lloyd** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:42 pm

Many thanks John, appreciate the quick reply. Three followup questions please -
1. where would I find the "calride" marker - do I need to view the file in text form?
2. will the "fine tune" procedure that I have done already stick, or should I do that again?
3. once I finish the cal ride (which is a fair way from home), can I just keep riding or should I reset for a new trip/ride?
Thanks again, your customer support is excellent and I think it gives people confidence to buy your products.
regards
David

Velocomp · Post by **Velocomp** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:55 pm

David Lloyd wrote:Many thanks John, appreciate the quick reply. Three followup questions please -
1. where would I find the "calride" marker - do I need to view the file in text form?
2. will the "fine tune" procedure that I have done already stick, or should I do that again?
3. once I finish the cal ride (which is a fair way from home), can I just keep riding or should I reset for a new trip/ride?
Thanks again, your customer support is excellent and I think it gives people confidence to buy your products.
regards
David

1. The "cal ride" file marker is automatically placed by the Newton when the Cal Ride procedure is done.

2. You won't need to do the Fine Tune step if you follow the Cal Ride procedure provided previously

3. You can keep riding; the Newton will automatically adjust its readings so that your subsequent rides will be correct.

andrep · Post by **andrep** » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:48 am

A few questions:

1. What is the temperature-difference that makes a new wind-cal neccessary?

2. After I done the cal-ride procedure and the fine-tune "dial in" procedure (after I uploaded the cal-ride) I was not asked if I use the RWS or not. Doesn´t it has any influence on anything? (only position was aked). I did a cal ride and after the cal ride I made an out&back ride of 2x4km. the o&B showed "no corrections/no tweak" so I took the profile as it was after the cal-ride.

3. I have my doubts about the "auto-correction" of the tilt-cal - here are all my experiences from a ride I made yesterday:

The temperatures went up in the last weeks here in germany. I started my ride at 20 degree Celsius when I started the ride. After round about 30 Minutes I had the feeling, that the power readings are very low. I checked on a flat street the tilt. (Click on "Hill" measured, turned 180 degree) - there was a difference of 1.2 degree?!?! I made a new wind cal, because the temperature went up to 26 degree. I made a trip reset and hoped, that after 5 minutes the auto-correction will help me out with the wrong tilt. Checked it again after anoter 30 minutes. again - there was a huge differences the Newton showed. I went to the user-menue and to the coast-down-program and made my own tilt-cal and abort the coast down. Tilt was ok after that. I went on. After a few miles I had the feeling, that the watts are low again. There wasn´t much wind out there. There was a leasure road and I rode it a few times up and down - on BOTH directions the newton showed me –3 to –6km/h of wind. Again and again. The temperatures went up on 30 degree now. I made a new wind cal. After that Wind cal it measured 1 to 3 km/h in the one direction and –1 to –3 in the other. The watt-readings became more plausible.

A day before I went 110ks on a hilly course - the tilt was wrong all the way. After I uploaded it on isaac and the programm corrected it, the watts went up from 166 to 178 in average. Please give me some helpfull advices how to avoid such happenings. I will do an Ironman on sunday. The temperatures will defenitely change about 5 to 10 degrees between the start and the end of the ride.

andrep · Post by **andrep** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:35 am

Would be nice, if someone (of Velocomp) would answer ...

lorduintah · Post by **lorduintah** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:47 am

I am sure they will get to you - maybe a little impatient?

Would probably ALWAYS help if you send files with your questions - a peek at a ride file can fill in a lot of blanks and shorten the response time.

Tom

Velocomp · Post by **Velocomp** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:13 am

andrep wrote:A few questions:

1. What is the temperature-difference that makes a new wind-cal neccessary?

2. After I done the cal-ride procedure and the fine-tune "dial in" procedure (after I uploaded the cal-ride) I was not asked if I use the RWS or not. Doesn´t it has any influence on anything? (only position was aked). I did a cal ride and after the cal ride I made an out&back ride of 2x4km. the o&B showed "no corrections/no tweak" so I took the profile as it was after the cal-ride.

3. I have my doubts about the "auto-correction" of the tilt-cal - here are all my experiences from a ride I made yesterday:

The temperatures went up in the last weeks here in germany. I started my ride at 20 degree Celsius when I started the ride. After round about 30 Minutes I had the feeling, that the power readings are very low. I checked on a flat street the tilt. (Click on "Hill" measured, turned 180 degree) - there was a difference of 1.2 degree?!?! I made a new wind cal, because the temperature went up to 26 degree. I made a trip reset and hoped, that after 5 minutes the auto-correction will help me out with the wrong tilt. Checked it again after anoter 30 minutes. again - there was a huge differences the Newton showed. I went to the user-menue and to the coast-down-program and made my own tilt-cal and abort the coast down. Tilt was ok after that. I went on. After a few miles I had the feeling, that the watts are low again. There wasn´t much wind out there. There was a leasure road and I rode it a few times up and down - on BOTH directions the newton showed me –3 to –6km/h of wind. Again and again. The temperatures went up on 30 degree now. I made a new wind cal. After that Wind cal it measured 1 to 3 km/h in the one direction and –1 to –3 in the other. The watt-readings became more plausible.

A day before I went 110ks on a hilly course - the tilt was wrong all the way. After I uploaded it on isaac and the programm corrected it, the watts went up from 166 to 178 in average. Please give me some helpfull advices how to avoid such happenings. I will do an Ironman on sunday. The temperatures will defenitely change about 5 to 10 degrees between the start and the end of the ride.

Lots of questions!

1. All electronic sensors have sensitivity to temperature; it's inevitable. At our factory (and at the sensor's factory, too) we do calibration sequences that minimize the effect of temperature on sensor performance. These factory calibrations are remarkably good, so a "wind cal" is not nearly as necessary as it was previously. However, the Wind Cal is still available in the setup sequence. In temperatures below 70F, you can do a wind cal if you wish; just make sure you cup the wind port so that no ambient wind is hitting the port.

2. When you select a Cal Ride from the Setup sequence, you will get a screen afterwards about fine tuning the ride. That screen asks about ride position. BUT IT ALSO ASKS IF YOU WANT TO "OVERRIDE" THE MEASURED WIND READINGS. THE ANSWER IS "KEEP MY CURRENT READING". If you override the current reading, then you've negated the benefit of the cal ride!!! We are going to change our software so that the override option is not allowed... Whether or not you have an RWS is irrelevant to the Cal Ride; the Cal Ride automatically accounts for the effects of the RWS.

3. We had many heated debates about whether or not to restore Tilt Cal, for precisely this reason. The Auto Cal works extremely well, and when a manual Tilt Cal is done, the manual tilt cal might screw-up things for the next 5 minutes.

If I'm reading your post properly you did the following:

Manual tilt cal

New wind cal

Manual tilt cal

New wind cal

This is like adjusting the tone controls of of a sound system during the middle of a rock concert!

I understand that you're trying to sort-out things, but this is not the way to do it.

Please post ride files and we will take a look.

andrep · Post by **andrep** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:29 am

Many thanks for your answers Jon and sorry, if I sound impatient. Yes - I am impatient, but time is running.

I will send the files this evening. But NO - it was much easier what I´ve done and I didn´t switch so much buttons:

First Day: Just used my newton on a hilly course - but here and then I CONTROLED the tilt cal by turning the bike on a road 180 degree. Everytime I did it (without wind cal or manual tilt cal) there was on a 110k ride a difference of 0,6 to 1,8 degrees - I controled it 3-4 times by turning the bike on a flat road. maybe every hour 1 time!

On the second - longer described - day, I start the ride with a profile (for another bike! - same newton, other Bike and profile!!) I´m using for a few days and what is very close to the profile I used for many weeks. I start my ride but the watts seems to be very low. Checked the tilt after 30 minutes of riding - wrong by over 1 percent. I made a trip reset and rode for another 30 minutes - tilt cal wrong by more than 1% - THAN I DID THE FIRST MANUAL TILT CAL. And than after 10 Minutes I rode on the road without signifant wind but had tailwind shown on the newton betwenn -3 to -10 ... in BOTH directions. THAN I DID THE FIRST WIND CAL OF THE DAY. Than it seems to be ok, the wind shown was "logical" and the watt-readings was it too.

I send all files this evening. Thank you!

andrep · Post by **andrep** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:12 pm

Here are all files (don´t hit me - I switched the profile on the "screwed day"

) If it is to much to analyze I don´t worry if you don´t do it. And in issac the files look better than that I told you - the tilt cal was out of range often ... )

andrep · Post by **andrep** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:14 pm

more files

andrep · Post by **andrep** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:16 pm

andrep · Post by **andrep** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:18 pm

road bike ride file from hilly course with tilt cal out of range and mathcing profile

TriBike · Post by **TriBike** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:34 am

Can you please post a photo of how the unit is mounted? I see this cal ride from 07/02/13, and it appears that the data is fine. I would recommend leaving this profile in your iBike unit and training with it. I have a feeling if your tilt data is erratic, it may have to do with the position of the unit and its mounting.

andrep · Post by **andrep** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:52 pm

You´ve seen my "mounting system with RWS" in the other thread already

I have the stear tube mounting with the rws on the handlebars ... http://www.ibikeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1606
But many thanks for your answer and will to help!!!

I think - yes, the profile(s) are fine. But today again. I had a 30k ride. After the ride I checked the the calibration with the "hill-function". One direction -0.3% - I turned the bike 180 degree - and again -0.2% (should have shown +0.3 instead - difference 0.5%) and this happens every day and must (in my eyes) lead to wrong watts because the newton "thinks" I ride downhill when I go on a flat road. ?!?! And THIS is irritating me and some questions popping up ...

racerfern · Post by **racerfern** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:06 pm

I just downloaded your 111km ride from a previous post. First I returned to the original download, then analyzed the ride. The difference is one watt. If I were you I would not worry about doing a tilt cal after a ride. In fact, by doing a tilt cal you're making the Newton start learning over again. I recommend after a ride, simply hold down the center button to finish the ride and be ready for a new one.

TriBike · Post by **TriBike** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:15 pm

Also, your tilt will not display perfectly unless you are on the bike as well. Part of the cal ride does fine tune the tilt. When you sit on the saddle, it loads the rear wheel, enough to change your tilt that -0.3 or -0.2 which you are seeing. Your profile looks good. Stick with it.

David Lloyd · Post by **David Lloyd** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:49 pm

OK, so I went and did 2 cal rides this morning - how do you judge which is the better file to use? The rides were over different courses but similar surface (good asphalt).

As an aside, I had problems with not being able to get out of setup mode after performing the cal ride - the screen kept coming back to wind cal and cycling through the menu even after pressing/holidng the up arrow or doing nothing for 30 seconds, so I did a hard reset after saving the ride data and seems to work OK now.

cheers
David

racerfern · Post by **racerfern** » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:06 am

I would be inclined to use the second one where there was less braking on downhills but it's important to note the two profiles are nearly identical.

Pick one and do your fitness test with it as that's the key to setting goals and tracking progress.

still-chasing · Post by **still-chasing** » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:16 pm

Did a Cal ride with my new Newton. After the Cal ride, I did a 2 mile up and back for checking calibration later. When I plugged the Newton to my computer, Isaac asked me to Dial-in settings. What I noticed is that the information pulled from Newton for "position" is "hoods" and I have the option to change it to "hoods elbow bent". I did the Cal ride in the hoods elbow bent but I guess Newton detected "hoods". So, my question is, do I change the settings to "hoods elbow bent" which gives a value of .310 or leave the value as how Newton calibrated? When I opened the Cal ride file and did the "check calibration", the original values from Newton yields an "insignificant change". If I switch to Isaac's Dial-in position, the check calibration yields a "change". I'm a little confused. Is Newton Dialed in after the Cal ride or Change to new Dial-in values after plugging in to Isaac?

Here are the files. Cal ride file and out and back.

Thanks.
"

racerfern · Post by **racerfern** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:04 am

Awesome consistency. I would just take the profile created after the cal ride and go with it. The difference to the check cal ride is absolutely insignificant.

Remember, take a profile and stick with it. As long as your fitness test is done with the same profile you're comparing apples and apples.

still-chasing · Post by **still-chasing** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:18 pm

Thanks Fernando!

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:16 am

I just attempted a cal ride and got 'cal error 6 - see isaac'.
cannot see anything in isaac help so wondering what this error relates to?

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:56 am

Just re my query above, I'm not surprised I got an error but interested to know if this is for the reason I may have expected it.

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