Newton Plus setup, calibration, and confusing documentation

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Guidob
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Newton Plus setup, calibration, and confusing documentation

Post by Guidob »

I have had my Newton Plus for 3 days. I been trying to verify that it is properly calibrated. The documentation for the Newton and Isaac is at times inconsistent, lacking or confusing.

A few questions:

1. How do I run multiple calibration rides and compare/average them? Should they all be done as profile 1 or should I switch to a different profile for each calibration ride?
2. Newton supports 4 profiles, Prof 1,2,3, & 4. However, the labels "Prof 1,2,3 or 4" do not appear in Isaac. Can I configure all the profiles on Newton from Isaac? I don't see anyway to do that. It would seem that there should be a way to download calibration/setup data from Isaac to a specific profile on Newton.
3. Can I copy profile 1 to profile 2 so that all the initial parameters are the same and then run another calibration ride in profile 2?
4. What is "wind calibration"? Nothing in Newton setup describes wind calibration, however it is the 2nd setup screen after tilt. In addition the first question asked in Isaac when analyzing calibration ride is "Was a good wind calibration done before this ride?". How would I know?
5. What is "Fast Start". This is the 3rd setup screen in the Newton, but there is no documentation. Note, the "Cal Ride" setup screen is the 8th screen not the 2nd as described in the manual.
6. When I select Device -> Setup Device I end up with the question "Have you already done a calibration ride on this bike?" What happens if I pick "Yes" or pick "No"? Which should I do and what is the benefit of one versus the other?
7. There is a setup screen for "set filter". What does it filter? Power, speed, cadence, %grade, HR? One of them, all of them? Does setting filter affect the data downloaded to Isaac or only on the display? What is the recommended setting?


Thanks
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racerfern
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Re: Newton Plus setup, calibration, and confusing documentation

Post by racerfern »

You need to start at the beginning and follow through the process. So...
Get Isaac up and running and check out some of the tutorials under help and also on youtube.
Then:
1) I recommend you do a hard reset to get your Newton back to the way it was delivered to you. Do this by pressing the left middle and right buttons at the same time.
2) Now enter the setup screen by pressing the up arrow. The first prompt will fe FAST START (YES or NO) Select YES and press the up arrow. Follow through the prompts until you get to the TILT CAL screen and do a tilt calibration following the directions on the screen. Next do the wind offset by having the unit at the outdoor temp and in calm wind press the center button.
3) You can now do a cal ride by going to your selected location. After the cal ride it is recommended to do a regular out/back ride on the same road as the cal ride. This can be used to confirm the profile.

Now to some of your questions:

At this time Isaac can only read or write profiles to the one that is currently the active one in Newton. So make sure you have the profile you want to do work with as the current profile in Isaac.

You can copy profiles, by getting the profile from Newton, switching to the new profile number and sending the profile back to Newton.

Wind calibration is accomplished as part of the cal ride. It determines the balance of headwind and tailwind.

SET FILTER only affects the displayed power as that data gets smoothed over the selected time.
Fernando
Guidob
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Re: Newton Plus setup, calibration, and confusing documentation

Post by Guidob »

That's interesting. What you described is not in the documentation for the Newton. It says (and I'll cut and paste)

****************
The setup process involves four simple steps:
1) Enter basic information into the Newton’s memory
2) Pair your Newton to the wireless sensors
3) Perform a Tilt Calibration
4) Perform a 2 mile long calibration ride
Steps 2 through 4 are performed with your Newton attached to your bike.
**********************
There is no mention of Fast Start or wind offset (wind cal)

I am reading the latest document recommended by iBike. "Newton_Instructions_red_Jun_12.pdf

If I do what you suggest, go to FAST START and select YES. The next screen after hitting up arrow is UNITS-> TIRE CIRC -> WGHT -> ESt AERO -> CAL WIND -> FAST START -> USER NO -> RACR NO -> CAL WIND -> TILT -> CAL RIDE.

WGHT and TIRE CIRC were already entered using Isaac, so there doesn't appear to be an reason for those.

It seems that FAST START doesn't do anything useful, it just puts me 11 screens away from CAL RIDE.
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racerfern
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Re: Newton Plus setup, calibration, and confusing documentation

Post by racerfern »

"Enter basic information" is the FAST START procedure.

And in-between three and four you need to do a wind offset zeroing. Then do the cal ride.

You're right, the instructions are not exactly what the procedure is. However from here you should be OK.
Fernando
Guidob
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Re: Newton Plus setup, calibration, and confusing documentation

Post by Guidob »

Ok. It looks like I did everything I was supposed to do except push the Wind Cal button.

A more important question was around running multiple calibration rides and averaging the results.

Does this makes sense?
- Run multiple out and back calibration rides. Each one will generate its own "ibr" file.
- Upload each file to Isaac
- Use Analyze -> Check Calibration to get Aero, Wind Scaling, CdA, Fric, Riding Tilt and Crr
- Plug each value into a spreadsheet
- Throw out high and low, and average the rest.
- Used Edit Profiles to update Aero, Windscaling, Fric, and Riding Tilt based on the averaged spreadsheet data. By holding CdA and Crr constant one only needs to update one of the parameters in each set.
- Send profile to Newton
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racerfern
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Re: Newton Plus setup, calibration, and confusing documentation

Post by racerfern »

I find the best procedure is to do the proper wind offset zeroing along with the setup work you've done. Then do a cal ride with as little wind as possible. I'll even get up at 5am to get out on a river trail before the wind and people get going. Immediately after the cal ride do an out/back ride on the same road so that you have the same prevailing conditions.

Go home, check calibration on the cal ride and "Accept" the changes. That will save the profile in the list but not send it to the unit. Now open the out/back ride and extract the profile from the cal ride. The profile you extract from the cal ride is the profile the Newton came up with after the cal ride.

Now, apply the profile the check calibration procedure gave you and you have three profiles to work with.

Don't go crazy doing lots of cal rides of out/backs. At this point you have three profiles and as long as the numbers are close then pick one and use it. Remember, it doesn't really matter if WS is 1.12 or 1.21, the same for other parameters. Pick a profile and ride. As long as your profile stays the same your results will be good.

Remember, no need to do any more wind offsets. I just turn on the unit, set my starting elevation and ride.

Have fun!
Fernando
Guidob
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:26 pm

Re: Newton Plus setup, calibration, and confusing documentation

Post by Guidob »

This morning I followed racerfern's suggestions. I did a TILT calibration, a WIND CAL, and then rode the same exact ride 3 times. I'm seeing inconsistent data.

This is about a 2.7 mile out and back, flattish country back road, a tiny bit bumpy, no traffic (maybe 6-7 cars passed me over the 3 rides), calm wind, 42 degrees.

Ride 1: Calibration ride - on the hoods the entire way
Ride 2: Same ride on the hoods, pushed a bit
Ride 3: Same ride in the drops, pushed a little less

What is a bit disconcerting is that when I run Analyze - Check Calibration on Ride 2, Isaac shows significant differences. Avg Power before=285, after = 249. Avg speed was 19.8.
Doing the same comparison on Ride 3, Isaac again shows significant differences: Avg Power before=256, after=242. Avg speed 19.2.

I don't understand why the significant differences, particularly on ride 2.

Am I doing something wrong? What should I use as the calibration data?

Thanks
Attachments
iBike_10_23_2012_0709_3_Miles Same as Cal Drops.ibr
same as cal ride but in the drops
(38.44 KiB) Downloaded 270 times
iBike_10_23_2012_0700_3_Miles Same as Cal Hoods.ibr
Same ride as cal ride, on the hoods
(37.9 KiB) Downloaded 247 times
iBike_10_23_2012_0650_3_Miles_CalRide.ibr
First calibration ride
(44.05 KiB) Downloaded 274 times
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racerfern
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Re: Newton Plus setup, calibration, and confusing documentation

Post by racerfern »

I see the change for ride 2 and I have to wonder if you can't find a flatter road for a cal ride. You've got almost -1.5% for just over a mile and it's not easy to maintain a steady effort for a road that undulates that much. Obviously, the opposite is true on the return trip.

I would use the check cal result of the calibration ride and send that to Newton. You can always make a slight adjustment later on but it seems the original cal ride gave an excellent profile.
Fernando
Guidob
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Re: Newton Plus setup, calibration, and confusing documentation

Post by Guidob »

Thanks for the recommendation. It is very nice to have some people willing to answer questions for new users.

That is flat, for around here. :-) I would need to go 10+ miles from home to find a flatter road. Maybe this weekend.

I have used a Kurt Kinetic trainer for a few years, so I have power and HR data while in the basement. This is the first time I have access to power data on a road. Is it reasonable to expect similar power numbers between the trainer and Newton for an equivalent effort, i.e. all out 3 mile ride on a "flattish" road? If so, then the 285W Newton measured on ride 2 feels "about right" given my 90% effort and HR AVG=154. This is compared to 325W 100% effort this morning for 9 minutes on the Kinetic with HR Avg=162

A couple of questions on what Newton and Isaac are doing during a calibration ride and an equivalent out and back. I think I understand what it is doing, but I would like to double check.

1) During a calibration ride, are the starting parameters set to default values based on questions about height, weight, and bike, etc.?
2) After the calibration ride new values are automatically calculated, stored, and used for any subsequent ride?
3) When I open the calibration ride file with Isaac can I see these exact before and after values using Check Calibration?
4)) Is the only calibration value that Newton will update on its own during regular riding, the TILT parameter which will also cause a change to FRIC? I noticed that the TILT value following the calibration ride is slightly different than the TILT value of the ride that took place a few minutes later.
6) Is there any difference between doing an official calibration ride, i.e. via the setup screen. or just doing the equivalent out and back ride and post processing with Isaac's Check Calibration? If this is true, I can generate some more data this weekend by hitting Trip Reset at the beginning and end of an out and back without modifying the calibration parameters. I'd like to wait to make any changes to Newton until I get back to my PC.

Thanks again.
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racerfern
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Re: Newton Plus setup, calibration, and confusing documentation

Post by racerfern »

In general you produce about 10% less power on a trainer than on the road. Some people (very few) can produce the same or more but that's primarily if they've been on trainers for a long time. I have a KK Road Machine with the extra weight and it takes all my might to produce 90% of my road abilities.

1. When you do a cal ride, the values come from:
a) The FAST START procedure but note that FAST START does not set a wind value.
b) The last calride that was done if you did not send a profile to the unit.
c) The profile last sent to the unit.

In the event that you do enter FAST START the wind scaling value will be from the last profile that was created.

2. Yes.

3. No. The way to get the results Newton came up with is to extract the profile from Newton immediately after a cal ride OR immediately after a cal ride, do another out/back ride and prior to any check calibration extract the profile from the out/back ride. I know what I meant to say here, I hope you understand it.

4. Tilt and wind will be adjusted by Newton at the end of a cal ride.

5. You're not counting properly.

6. You can accomplish the same as a cal ride by doing out/back rides and you can cut the sections you want to use into separate small rides. Just mark a lap at the beginning and end of the out/back so it's easy to find. Or do a trip reset as you wish.
Fernando
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