Tilt Cal And Profile (And Get from iBike)

[jon]

I have had a newton for a couple of months and until now have used it on one bike. When I set it up, I went through the normal start up a short time later decided to do a new tilt calibration since I was not sure I got the best first time around. I have a couple related questions:

1. The manual for the newton says: "The Basic Information you entered with the Isaac software, in combination wireless sensor Pairing, Tilt Calibration, and Cal Ride, together form a “Profile”, a description of all the things that make your Newton work properly with you and your particular bike." But the system did not seem to think there was any difference between the profiles attached with files that would have been created with different tilt calibrations. I would think that if the tilt calibration were part of the profile, a new tilt calibration would cause a new profile. What have I missed?

2. Is it correct for me to assume that I do not need to redo my calibration ride if I do a new tilt calibration? I did not do a new cal ride (did not have time today) when I put the Netwon on a new bike so I know some of the data for the ride will be off, if I put the Newton on the original bike tomorrow and redo the tilt calibration, I assume the profile (1 in this case) will be as if I had never done the second tilt calibration.

3. In the advanced screen for edit profiles, there Tilt Cal value is"*****". It does not seem to change with whatever profile I select, nor does anything happen when I "Get from iBike" I see on page 54 of the instructions, a discussion of adjusting the tilt as a function of changing Crr. Is this the sole purpose of this [tilt] control?

[Velocomp]

Answers are:

1) Yes, tilt calibration is part of profile. When you do a new tilt calibration, the profile in your Newton is updated automatically, and the that updated profile is included in every ride done subsequently.

2) No, you do not need to do a new cal ride if you perform a new tilt calibration. However, you DO need to do a new cal ride if you put your Newton on a different bike; you should have a different profile for each bike.

3) ***** means the value is there but is hidden from view or editing.

[ScottChapman]

It sounds like his profile didn't change when he did the new tilt calibration?

[racerfern]

In the advanced screen for edit profiles, there Tilt Cal value is"*****". It does not seem to change with whatever profile I select, nor does anything happen when I "Get from iBike" I see on page 54 of the instructions, a discussion of adjusting the tilt as a function of changing Crr. Is this the sole purpose of this [tilt] control?

AFA #3 by the original poster clicking "Get from iBike" brings all the info such as the SET FILT setting and lots of other stuff in addition to the tilt calibration. So be careful that you're working on the same profile in Isaac that is currently active in the Newton.

The easiest way to make sure all of your Newton preferences are stored in the Isaac profile is to open the profile in Isaac while having the same profile active on Newton. Then click "Get from iBike". Click Accept. Now all your personalized settings for the profile will be saved in Isaac. If you ever make a change to the profile in Isaac send it to Newton and you're good to go.

[jon]

One follow up specifically with regard to the profiles and tilt calibration that was probably the reason for the follow up. What I am questioning is the fact that the Isaac software thinks a profile that has had a new tilt calibration in the iBike - I only have profile 1 in use at this time, is the same profile, which is inconsistent with both the instructions I originally posted and what one would think.

I would think that if the tile calibration changes so too should the profile just as if I had done a new calibration ride. I am very aware that if I put the Netwon on another bike that I should do another cal ride after at tilt calibration.

/jon

[jon]

Scott suggested I post two ride files with different tilt calibrations to illustrate the point. The two files were created after doing a tilt calibration before each ride. They were on different bikes (yes I know I should do a new calibration ride, but that is not the point of the question).

The Isaac software thinks these are the same profiles.

[racerfern]

Aha! They are the same profile, The tilt calibration has nothing to do with tilt offset.

Tilt offset is how much the front end of the bike goes down from your weight, frame flex, etc. Without tilt offset you would appear to be riding downhill on a level road.

Tilt calibration is simply establishing when the iBike is level relative to the ground and has nothing to do with tilt offset.

[jon]

Forget Tile offset for the moment. The issue is that they should not be the same profile since they had two different tilt calibrations. If tilt calibrations do not cause a new profile, then as a minimum the documentation is wrong. They should to allow people to reposition the mount or put a different mount on a bike that is otherwise identical.

[racerfern]

I understand your point and I suppose the docs could state "Tilt Offset" instead of "Tilt Calibration".

The moment you reposition a mount or move the iBike to another bike, the assumption and recommendation is that you perform a new calride since wind scaling will probably change.

[ScottChapman]

I think Jon is simply looking for some way for him to confirm that the new tilt calibration actually resulted in a modified profile since he isn't seeing any direct evidence of that.

[ScottChapman]

So I did a quick check to see if I could understand what is going on.

What I did was save the profile from one of the rides, and the applied it to the other ride. That did in fact change the results.

I think what this tells me is that the profile is in fact changed with the new tilt calibration. But perhaps the combination of the doc and the software only using the Fric & Aero to determine profile uniqueness, and that there is no apparent way to see the tilt cal in the profile is what is confusing?

[jon]

Thanks, this is a plausable explanation and helps.

[racerfern]

I don't want to stir the pot here, but doing a tilt calibration does not change a profile, it merely makes an adjustment to what the new "level" is. That's why you "Get" the tilt calibration from the iBike and attach it to your existing profile in Isaac. If you make a change to the profile in Isaac and send it to the iBike you won't have to redo the tilt calibration.

It's the same as changing your overall weight in the iBike. It just adjusts for current weight. The profile remains the profile. That said, if you gain or lose 10lbs you should do a new cal ride, however going up or down a pound or two is not enough to call for a new cal ride yet it does have some tiny effect. However, this does not create a new profile.

[ScottChapman]

Hey! Horrible things happen when the pot doesn't get stirred!

[jon]

I don't want to stir the pot here, but doing a tilt calibration does not change a profile, it merely makes an adjustment to what the new "level" is. That's why you "Get" the tilt calibration from the iBike and attach it to your existing profile in Isaac. If you make a change to the profile in Isaac and send it to the iBike you won't have to redo the tilt calibration.

It's the same as changing your overall weight in the iBike. It just adjusts for current weight. The profile remains the profile. That said, if you gain or lose 10lbs you should do a new cal ride, however going up or down a pound or two is not enough to call for a new cal ride yet it does have some tiny effect. However, this does not create a new profile.

I had an iBike for a couple years before getting the Newton and I do not ever remember reading anything in that manual or what I have for the newton that indicates that I should retrieve my tilt calibration from the iBike and 'attach' it to a profile then download that combined blob to the Newton. How does one make the attachment?

/jon

[ScottChapman]

It sounds more like tilt cal is similar to wind cal, there are offsets that are kept in the profile, but the settings are in the ibike and are just settings.

If I remember correctly, Tilt cal was one of those things that eventually the Gen III learned how to adjust during the ride.

[racerfern]

The day you create a profile from entering your info and doing a calride, you downloaded the calride info from the iBike. The tilt calibration came along for the ride and it became part of the profile. Now for some reason, usually a handlebar adjustment you need to do a new tilt calibration. Everything's fine and you're riding along. Let's say you never "Get" the new tilt calibration.

You decide to adjust your profile due to a change in tires and lets say you lower your Crr slightly. So you copy your existing profile and make a change to the new one. Now you send it to the iBike but you just sent it with the old tilt calibration. This is a good example of getting the tilt calibration if you re-do your tilt calibration.

The Gen3 adjusted itself for a bad tilt calibration but with a good tilt calibration you won't have screwy numbers for the first 5 minutes or so.

[ScottChapman]

Still not clear. When he makes the handlebar adjustment, and does a new tilt cal it doesn't get saved with the profile right? So, if he wanted to make that adjustment permanent what would the procedure be (aside from doing a new cal ride)?

I know the new unit will correct for this during the ride.

[racerfern]

After making the adjustment, doing a tilt calibration connect to Isaac and "Get" the tilt. Click accept and the new tilt calibration is now part of the profile.

[ScottChapman]

So just get profile from iBike, save it, and send it back?

[racerfern]

Yes.

[ScottChapman]

... And technically the only benefit to doing this will be to get more accurate results during the first 5 minutes (or so) of riding which the unit does various calibration adjustments?

[racerfern]

And... knowing that when you line up on your favorite spot for a quick check the number is what you expect it to be. If not, something moved.

And... if it's off by a ton, for a short ride those first few minutes can skew your overall numbers. Sure it all gets fixed when you get home but I like knowing that what it showed on the road is what I really did.

Seriously, it's one less unknown variable. Should you ever have an issue lack of a good tilt calibration will not be one of the concerns.

[ScottChapman]

Is there a good reason why a new tilt calibration shouldn't update the profile? It seems like that would match users expectations a little better; not sure anyone (except you insiders) would have known this.

[jon]

OK, So the steps are:

• Connect Newton to Isaac - ensuring that the profile you wish to modify with new tilt information is the one currently selected on the Newton.
• Bring up the edit profiles screen (I assume select the profile that is also the active one in the Newton)
• Click on the "Get from iBike" button on the advanced tab(I have done this before and the "****" did not change).
• Accept.
• Return to the basic tab in the edit profile.
• Send to iBike.

Done.

What is important to remember is that the tilt profile is wrong until you do this OR (please tell me if this is correct) You do a new tilt calibration and immediately do a cal ride. By immediately I assume like with the Gen3 devices it is within the window of about 30 minutes where the Cal Ride software will not force a new tilt.

Is this all correct?

/jon

[racerfern]

Is this all correct?

Yes.

[jon]

Thanks for all the help. I do think it is fair to say that the documentation/software could use a bit more detail and clarity.

[jon]

The universal mount broke on my bike the other day so I took another of my other bike and did a tilt calibration and followed the procedure I listed above since it is not possible to place a new mount exactly in the same spot as the old one. I did a new tilt calibration went to the advanced screen and when I pressed accept the screen closed so I could not send the new profile with the new tilt calibration to the newton. I skipped the accept and went to the basic tab and did send to iBike but an not sure that the new tilt was saved since I had not yet done the select.

Anybody know what happens with this new version? I am running Isaac for Mac 1.0.7

/jon

[racerfern]

Jon, you're right there. Go to the advanced screen and before hitting accept, click "Get from iBike" to get the new tilt cal info. Then click send to iBike (no need to switch back to the basic screen). Finally, click Accept and the new profile becomes permanent.