Isaac 4.1 won't work with macOS Catalina

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meste
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Isaac 4.1 won't work with macOS Catalina

Post by meste » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:26 pm

If you have installed an earlier version of Isaac/Mac, such as Isaac/Mac/4.1, this version of Isaac will no longer work when you upgrade.

We have a new version of Isaac, Isaac/Mac/5.1, which works with macOS Catalina and earlier versions of macOS.

Here is where to get Isaac/Mac/5.1

https://velocompforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5318

shmoesmith
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Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:15 pm

Re: FINAL NOTICE: Mac OS Catalina: Isaac/Mac won't work!!!

Post by shmoesmith » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:07 pm

I just got my upgrade to Catalina notice and thought I had better check the forums to see what was going on with the update - leading me to this thread.

I'm honestly a bit disappointed that this hasn't already been resolved. I get that you guys are a small company with limited resources, but I've been getting warnings from Mac about 32 bit products not working on the next OS update for quite a while now (at least a year it seems?) and I would have thought you would be prepared for it. I just barely bought my powerpod in April and never would have expected a Mac OS update later in the year to basically render the product unusable(well at least unable to update profiles and fix calibrations etc). While I don't love my Mac, its the only computer I have and I don't want to mess with my OS or buy a new hard drive just to get things to work.

I really hope you guys can get the software updated soon. There are many non technical Mac users that are counting on you!

Velocomp
Velocomp CEO
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Re: FINAL NOTICE: Mac OS Catalina: Isaac/Mac won't work!!!

Post by Velocomp » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:14 am

shmoesmith wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:07 pm
I just got my upgrade to Catalina notice and thought I had better check the forums to see what was going on with the update - leading me to this thread.

I'm honestly a bit disappointed that this hasn't already been resolved. I get that you guys are a small company with limited resources, but I've been getting warnings from Mac about 32 bit products not working on the next OS update for quite a while now (at least a year it seems?) and I would have thought you would be prepared for it. I just barely bought my powerpod in April and never would have expected a Mac OS update later in the year to basically render the product unusable(well at least unable to update profiles and fix calibrations etc). While I don't love my Mac, its the only computer I have and I don't want to mess with my OS or buy a new hard drive just to get things to work.

I really hope you guys can get the software updated soon. There are many non technical Mac users that are counting on you!
We laser-focus our very limited resources in the places we believe will provide the most benefit to the greatest number of people. In the past three years (the time since Apple announced their 64 bit mandate) we have created PowerPod, PowerPod V3, and AeroPod. Those are major products with significantly improved performance and features. Our customers love them. Projects like these require significant levels of development and lots of new firmware--computer code.

The (significant) work required to do an Isaac/Mac code-rewrite delivers exactly zero incremental customer benefit. Re-writing code to 64 bit is a resource-intensive, make-work exercise forced on Apple developers, in the service of Apple's grand technology diktats.

I would also add that Apple's security changes introduced in High Sierra produced an unexpected demand on us, to which we have responded as best as we could. We've seen some major software companies also deal with the same security issues, and their workarounds aren't pretty.

What is easy for Apple to do is mandating changes that place huge burdens on Mac developers. They don't care.

We do care, and we will update Isaac when we can.
John Hamann

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Re: FINAL NOTICE: Mac OS Catalina: Isaac/Mac won't work!!!

Post by Disallowed Username » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:36 pm

shmoesmith wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:07 pm
I just got my upgrade to Catalina notice and thought I had better check the forums to see what was going on with the update - leading me to this thread.

I'm honestly a bit disappointed that this hasn't already been resolved. I get that you guys are a small company with limited resources, but I've been getting warnings from Mac about 32 bit products not working on the next OS update for quite a while now (at least a year it seems?) and I would have thought you would be prepared for it. I just barely bought my powerpod in April and never would have expected a Mac OS update later in the year to basically render the product unusable(well at least unable to update profiles and fix calibrations etc). While I don't love my Mac, its the only computer I have and I don't want to mess with my OS or buy a new hard drive just to get things to work.

I really hope you guys can get the software updated soon. There are many non technical Mac users that are counting on you!
I feel the same. The Mac OS warnings have been there for a loooong time. I recommended the Powerpod whenever the occasion arose but am unable to do so now. Isaac was too old-fashioned and unintuitive to begin with and never got an update that addressed that. The number of times that I spent changing settings only to lose connection and start all over again... Please get it done, preferably with an app for iOS that allows to change settings via Bluetooth.

Velocomp
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Re: FINAL NOTICE: Mac OS Catalina: Isaac/Mac won't work!!!

Post by Velocomp » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:27 pm

The Bluetooth app is done and was announced over a month ago.

Download and use PowerHouse Bike, and use the "Settings/Rider, Bike and Sensor Setup" screen to access changes via Bluetooth.
John Hamann

shmoesmith
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Re: FINAL NOTICE: Mac OS Catalina: Isaac/Mac won't work!!!

Post by shmoesmith » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:20 pm

Velocomp wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:27 pm
The Bluetooth app is done and was announced over a month ago.

Download and use PowerHouse Bike, and use the "Settings/Rider, Bike and Sensor Setup" screen to access changes via Bluetooth.
This doesn't help to much for us powerpod lite users that are stuck with ant+ and usb cable connectivity only

Velocomp
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Re: FINAL NOTICE: Mac OS Catalina: Isaac/Mac won't work!!!

Post by Velocomp » Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:40 am

Actually, you should be able to use the app with your PPL.
John Hamann

jeffwhitfield
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Re: FINAL NOTICE: Mac OS Catalina: Isaac/Mac won't work!!!

Post by jeffwhitfield » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:45 pm

I'm gonna play devils advocate a bit with this. I'm a long-term Mac user...but I'm also a long-term Windows user as well, having served as an IT administrator for the better part of 5 years some years ago. I've been in both worlds and can certainly understand the frustrations developers have trying to develop a single app that works well in both environments. However, there are reasons for everything that both Microsoft and Apple does. Understanding those reasons is key to dealing with the problems with any of these environments and how to solve them.
The (significant) work required to do an Isaac/Mac code-rewrite delivers exactly zero incremental customer benefit. Re-writing code to 64 bit is a resource-intensive, make-work exercise forced on Apple developers, in the service of Apple's grand technology diktats.
Actually, there are benefits to going all 64-bit and leaving 32-bit apps behind.

For starters, all 32-bit apps are limited to 4GB of RAM. Now, that might not seem like a problem with an app like Issac. I'm not sure if any user utilizes that much RAM with Issac.

The other benefit is the full utilization of 64 bits per cycle. Currently, in both Windows and Mac, running a 32-bit app requires translating each instruction into something a 64-bit processor can utilize. That requires extra stuff being added to the OS and does add a little overhead to resources when the app runs. When you consider the fact that virtually every computer being sold has a 64-bit processor in it, it doesn't make any sense to continue supporting 32-bit. Dropping support for it allows both Apple and Microsoft to further optimize their OS's for better performance. Apple is doing this now and I don't doubt Microsoft isn't far behind.
I would also add that Apple's security changes introduced in High Sierra produced an unexpected demand on us, to which we have responded as best as we could. We've seen some major software companies also deal with the same security issues, and their workarounds aren't pretty.
Yes, Apple has made some security changes...and for good reason. Without them, users stand a greater risk of being vulnerable to bigger security issues. The whole Adobe Flash debacle taught them that. You just can't trust third-party developers to do what is necessary to secure their apps. Even big companies like Adobe can't be trusted. As such, Apple decided to lock things down so that users are in more control over the security of the apps that run on their machines. Part of that is due to their attitude about the users of their computers. Not everyone is tech savvy and Apple knows it. They aim to make their computers as easy as possible to use for those who don't know how to use computers.
What is easy for Apple to mandate places huge burdens on others. They don't care.
I tend to disagree. I think Apple does care. Probably more than even Microsoft or Google. They're super vigilant about security and privacy. Now, that's not to say they're perfect about it. They're not. The latest debacle with the release of Catalina and the latest iOS releases prove that.

The thing is that they've been giving people notice about dropping 32-bit software for quite some time now. They told people they were eventually going to do that as far back as High Sierra with notices being turned on for 32-bit apps running on Mojave. Basically, developers had two years to transition to a 64-bit only environment.

The question I have is this: What percentage of your user base is on the Mac? My guess is that it's a fairly low number. But even 10% of your user base is quite a bit. Ignoring it could mean an instant 10% reduction in future sales. That's not exactly good. I make the case with my web design business that ignoring people with disabilities is an instant 10% reduction in visitors. Why ignore a whole group of people?

Consider your statement that the upgrades provide zero incremental customer benefit. The problem now is that the current software provides zero customer benefit. If they can't run it, they can't use it. That's not a good place to me in my opinion. Hopefully that'll change soon.

In the meantime, people like me who are pretty tech savvy can run Issac on a virtual machine. I fortunately use Parallels Desktop and have both a Windows 10 machine and older version of MacOS running. But not everyone is in that position or even knows how to deal with it. Till you come out with a Catalina compatible version, you're effectively leaving customers in the lurch.

Velocomp
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Re: FINAL NOTICE: Mac OS Catalina: Isaac/Mac won't work!!!

Post by Velocomp » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:35 am

Thanks for your post; it is very thoughtful and expresses clearly many of the motivations pushing Apple to the 64 bit world.

We have always been big supporters of the Mac; in fact, we were the first power meter company to make a Mac-compatible version of software (in 2005).

Velocomp customers who are currently impacted adversely are:

1) Mac users, AND
2) those Mac users who have upgraded to Catalina (this is a subset of 1))

If 10% of our customers are Mac users (your number) then maybe 20% of them have upgraded to Catalina (remember, not all Macs can run on Catalina). So, that would be 2% of our customer base.

We don't want even 2% locked-out, so we created a workaround for affected customers who aren't super tech-savvy: a $20 thumb drive with Mojave OS and Isaac pre-installed. Plug and play. We have had zero customers purchase the thumb drive, so it would appear that the number of customers who are truly locked out are small indeed.

While it's true that Apple has been warning of the 64 bit change for several years now, we delayed implementing the 64 bit version of Isaac because:

1) It isn't easy. For example, we are trying to preserve compatibility of old ride files (which are stored in 32 bit form) and new ride files, which will be stored in 64 bit form.
2) Not easy means expensive; there is a lot of re-coding that needs to be done
3) The 64 bit coding, in and of itself, does not cover all the changes required by Apple. As you point out, Apple has modified significantly its security procedures. We use drivers from third parties that, until very recently, were incompatible with Apple's security changes. We were locked-out from upgrading Isaac until those (big company) developers upgraded their drivers
4) We have limited resources and historically we have prioritized them on activities that improve product features and performance. Once we have the 64 bit version of Isaac implemented, it will run again on the Mac but it won't run any differently. That is what I meant when I said "zero customer benefit".

There is a substantial cost to us for the 64 bit upgrade work, and we are going to have to try to recover some of its cost, in the form of a one-time upgrade charge. We haven't figured out yet how to do this but we will let you know.

I'm hoping we will have the 64 bit version of Isaac/Mac ready in the next couple of weeks.
John Hamann

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briarandbrine
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Re: FINAL NOTICE: Mac OS Catalina: Isaac/Mac won't work!!!

Post by briarandbrine » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:33 pm

I'm one of the ones who is locked out. While I appreciate the thumb drive workaround, it isn't for me a substitute for software that works on Catalina.

I don't often check the boards here, but definitely did when I upgraded and discovered that Isaac didn't work anymore. I've tried the iOS app, but it isn't for me. While it is indeed understandable that it's hard to justify the development hours for a small minority of customers, but I wonder how small that minority is in fact. Hopefully the progress of the software to make it compatible moves along without too much difficulty for you all because I'm eager to have a power meter that works again.

Velocomp
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Re: FINAL NOTICE: Mac OS Catalina: Isaac/Mac won't work!!!

Post by Velocomp » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:18 pm

Velocomp wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:17 pm
briarandbrine wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:33 pm
I'm one of the ones who is locked out. While I appreciate the thumb drive workaround, it isn't for me a substitute for software that works on Catalina.

I don't often check the boards here, but definitely did when I upgraded and discovered that Isaac didn't work anymore. I've tried the iOS app, but it isn't for me. While it is indeed understandable that it's hard to justify the development hours for a small minority of customers, but I wonder how small that minority is in fact. Hopefully the progress of the software to make it compatible moves along without too much difficulty for you all because I'm eager to have a power meter that works again.
To be clear: we don't think the thumb drive is a permanent workaround, either. We provided it so that Catalina users would not be at a total loss while we worked on Isaac/Mac/64.

We are working on Isaac very actively; I am already testing beta SW that has 64 bit stuff in it. I am hopeful we will have something before the end of the month.

One final comment: even without Isaac, our products provide 100% of the functionality of conventional power meters. :D
John Hamann

Speedyg
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Re: FINAL NOTICE: Mac OS Catalina: Isaac/Mac won't work!!!

Post by Speedyg » Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:37 am

Just want to give you guys a big high five on all this. You are a small company with a great and inexpensive product that really works. Oh and it actually looks cool now, just saying! 8-)

Looking forward to 64 bit Isaac!

Cheers

Velocomp
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Re: FINAL NOTICE: Mac OS Catalina: Isaac/Mac won't work!!!

Post by Velocomp » Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:12 am

Speedyg wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:37 am
Just want to give you guys a big high five on all this. You are a small company with a great and inexpensive product that really works. Oh and it actually looks cool now, just saying! 8-)

Looking forward to 64 bit Isaac!

Cheers
Thank you, that is appreciated. Hope to have it in the next 7 days.
John Hamann

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briarandbrine
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Re: FINAL NOTICE: Mac OS Catalina: Isaac/Mac won't work!!!

Post by briarandbrine » Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:32 pm

Velocomp wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:18 pm
Velocomp wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:17 pm
briarandbrine wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:33 pm
I'm one of the ones who is locked out. While I appreciate the thumb drive workaround, it isn't for me a substitute for software that works on Catalina.

I don't often check the boards here, but definitely did when I upgraded and discovered that Isaac didn't work anymore. I've tried the iOS app, but it isn't for me. While it is indeed understandable that it's hard to justify the development hours for a small minority of customers, but I wonder how small that minority is in fact. Hopefully the progress of the software to make it compatible moves along without too much difficulty for you all because I'm eager to have a power meter that works again.
To be clear: we don't think the thumb drive is a permanent workaround, either. We provided it so that Catalina users would not be at a total loss while we worked on Isaac/Mac/64.

We are working on Isaac very actively; I am already testing beta SW that has 64 bit stuff in it. I am hopeful we will have something before the end of the month.

One final comment: even without Isaac, our products provide 100% of the functionality of conventional power meters. :D
Thanks to you and your team for working to get this out as quickly as you are able. Looking forward to using it again.

Velocomp
Velocomp CEO
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NOTICE: Isaac 4.1 won't work with macOS Catalina.

Post by Velocomp » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:00 pm

Isaac/Mac/5.1 for Catalina (and earlier macOS) is now available!

https://velocompforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5318
John Hamann

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