PowerPod Ride Configuration

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TimPrice
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:16 pm

PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by TimPrice »

Hello,

Just a quick question regarding PP individual ride configuration, I've done my calibration in and out ride and have been using my device since for the past few weeks and wondered whether my PP needs to be configured with wind direction or any other environment variables prior to a ride or, once the calibration ride has been performed PP is good to go for any ride?

Thank you in advance.

Tim
Velocomp
Velocomp CEO
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by Velocomp »

No, nothing additional needs to be done.
John Hamann
TimPrice
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:16 pm

Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by TimPrice »

Thank you for your reply.

If nothing else needs doing would you mind examining my calibration ride file and my latest ride file?

I'm asking because on a couple of rides for no apparent reason my power has spiked at over 1100 watts and upon investigating the timeline in Isaac, on Strava, TrainingPeaks and Garmin connect this was possible and if it was, I'd be a professional cyclist, winning all the major events.

Also, after uploading the last ride file to TrainingPeaks, I was informed that I had set a new functional power of 390 watts. Now, I train daily on my Tacx Flux and Zwift, have done a FTP test and my ftp is 248, and a jump to 390 is unheard of and getting my a lot of stick from other club members and strava atheletes, who are all convinced that I'm either manipulating the power results to make myself look better or, there must be something wrong with my PowerPod.

Please advise.

Thank you
Tim
Attachments
iBike_01_14_2018_0937_66_Miles.ibr
Suspicious power reading ride file.
(822.18 KiB) Downloaded 234 times
iBike_12_30_2017_1341_3_Miles_CalRide.ibr
Out and back calibration file
(56.23 KiB) Downloaded 230 times
Velocomp
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by Velocomp »

During the first 8 minutes of your ride PP recalibrates itself. You can see in your ride file a HUGE high watts for the first 8 minutes.

I used the "File/Analyze Route..." to fix the first 8 minutes. This corrected file will fix your FTP problem in training peaks
Attachments
Price_01_14_2018_0937_66_Miles.ibr
(1.44 MiB) Downloaded 228 times
John Hamann
TimPrice
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:16 pm

Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by TimPrice »

Thank you for this John.

I did assume that "File/Analyze Rout..." would fix things. However, I've opened the ride file in Isaac, exported it for TrainingPeaks and uploaded it and now there is no GPS data so I no longer have the routes and as you know, I'm not going to be able to export and/or upload to Strava without the GPS data, so I cannot fix the ride in Strava.

My workflow is to turn on PP, Garmin Edge, ride, finish ride and stop Garmin, PP. Then when I'm home with my laptop, I connect my Garmin to it, open up Garmin Express and "hey presto!", my Garmin, Strava and TrainingPeaks accounts are all updated and synced together. If, I've got to start "File/Analyze Route..." before the ride data is 'Fixed' and accurate, how am I to get the GPS part? I can see that there is a GPS upgrade key that will unlock the GPS functionality but, has to be used in conjuntion with a smartphone which, I don't carry on all my rides and why should I, have the Garmin Edge which is doing a perfect satisfactory job of tracking my location.

This is a major flaw with PowerPod and as much as I like it, and I really do, it's just not really going to be a viable way to record power and also, means my very expensive Garmin Edge is largely redundant other than displaying data whilst riding and which is likely incorrect and needs fixing in Isaac.

Tim
Velocomp
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by Velocomp »

You can do just what you want, as follows:

1) Save your Garmin ride as a .gpx file

2) Analyze your PowerPod file as you wish

3) Use the command "File/Merge GPS, Power or Other Data from Another File..."

4) Select your Garmin GPS data and sync

5) Save the combined file.

6) You can then export the merged file as you wish to TrainingPeaks etc.
Attachments
Screen Shot 2018-01-15 at 2.05.59 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-01-15 at 2.05.59 PM.png (145.52 KiB) Viewed 9837 times
John Hamann
TimPrice
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by TimPrice »

Great thank you very much John for helping me.
TimPrice
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:16 pm

Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by TimPrice »

Hi John,

I'm not sure what's going on here and I'm becoming extremely worried about accuracy and reliability with PowerPod.

I've have just done a 70 mile ride with a 25 minute stop in between, I've loaded both files into Isaac and comined into one file (iBike_01_20_2018_0914_70_Miles_original), I then merged this file with the .gpx file from my Garmin order to be able to upload to Strava and TrainingPeaks. Once mergred, I ran the Analyze > Analyze Route because there were some alarmingl high power readings, I then uploaded to Strava and TP, the combined, merged and analyzed file.

This ride was a 70 miler and at an average of 18 mph, there were four of us and I did more than my fair share of being at the front and therefore, not drafting. Throughout the whole of the ride and whilst peddling I noticed that my watts were either zero of very low, lower than my heart rate and perceived effort would lead me to believe they should've been. Upon viewing the stats in TP, I can see that my W/kg are 1.4, this is simply incorrect, it cannot be right. This was a tough ride with above average effort on my part but the average recorded power is: 105 and normalised power is: 165.

When viewing the speed and wind readings in Isaac, it appears that throughout the ride the wind was behind me, which is wasn't. The PowerPod is in the same position it was for my initial out and back calibration ride and the wind tunnel isn't being obscured by cables or anything else. Both my cadence and speed sensors are working correctly and with new batteries.

I have attached the merged ride file, would you mind looking at things and advising accordingly? I cannot post the Garmin .gpx, I've uploaded it three times now and it's not being attached to this post. If, you want it, let me know and I'll try again.

Thank you in advance.

Tim
Attachments
iBike_01_20_2018_0914_70_Miles_original.ibr
Combined ride file
(704.12 KiB) Downloaded 207 times
Velocomp
Velocomp CEO
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by Velocomp »

Are you riding in rain or mist? It looks like your wind port is becoming clogged.
John Hamann
TimPrice
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Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:16 pm

Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by TimPrice »

Yes, it was raining.

There were four of us on the ride and we took it in turns to ride at the front, rotating the leader every 5 miles or so. So, at least 3/4 of the time I was behind a rear wheel and presumably the water that was being kicked up is what clogged up the wind port.

How can I deal with this again, naturally, I cannot stop and check it every 5 minutes and there's no way I can be on the front of a ride for 70 miles.

Thank you
spangelsaregreat
Posts: 139
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by spangelsaregreat »

Hi,

I am sure John will advise but I had this issue after short ride in deluge. I had my PowerPod mounted on an out front Garmin Mount which put it in direct line with the spray from the front wheel. I moved it to the supplied mount. I also have the supplied mount twisted back towards the rear of the bike which pulls the PowerPod up nearer the bottom of the handlebar. Since adopting that position I have not had that issue again. This includes plenty of wet group rides too.

Using the mount position has also mean on my road bike where I am just using a cheap GoPro mount it is easy to get the PowerPod in the correct position as the top slightly touches the bottom of the handlebar like the stop on the original mount. Might not work depending on how your cables are routed on the bike but on my one the wind port is free from any cables etc.

Regards
TimPrice
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:16 pm

Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by TimPrice »

spangelsaregreat wrote:Hi,

I am sure John will advise but I had this issue after short ride in deluge. I had my PowerPod mounted on an out front Garmin Mount which put it in direct line with the spray from the front wheel. I moved it to the supplied mount. I also have the supplied mount twisted back towards the rear of the bike which pulls the PowerPod up nearer the bottom of the handlebar. Since adopting that position I have not had that issue again. This includes plenty of wet group rides too.

Using the mount position has also mean on my road bike where I am just using a cheap GoPro mount it is easy to get the PowerPod in the correct position as the top slightly touches the bottom of the handlebar like the stop on the original mount. Might not work depending on how your cables are routed on the bike but on my one the wind port is free from any cables etc.

Regards
Thank you for you input and taking the time to reply.

My PowerPod is mounted on the supplied handlebar mount, in the location and pushed forward as described in the user manual and Velocomp YouTube video: PowerPod Out and Back Calibration Ride. The pictures I’ve supplied illustrate this.

I keep trying to hold the faith with PowerPod because the concept of using opposing forces and drag to measure power, coupled with the cost appeals to me but, I am now worry that spray being kicked up from a rider in front of me can clog the wind tunnel which in turn sends the data ‘squiffy’ and other things such has the process of ‘cleaning’ the ride file via Analyze/Fix Route... to eliminate the 8 minute re-calibration data that is recorded is just too time consuming. I simply want to ride my bike, have faith that the recorded power is accurate and consistent, finish my ride and sync to Garmin and et viola! All my sycned accounts are updated and all reflect an accurate representation of the ride and effort.

Tim
Attachments
PowerPod_2.jpg
PowerPod_2.jpg (600.83 KiB) Viewed 9749 times
PowerPod_1.jpg
PowerPod_1.jpg (663.25 KiB) Viewed 9749 times
nicholp1
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:46 pm

Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by nicholp1 »

Tim

I'm sure John will confirm but the mount angle of your PowerPod is right at the maximum. As a rule of thumb the lettering on the side should be parallel to the ground..

Shift you mount and the PowerPod will adjust over the next 8 mins of you next ride. As it is set up it the wind port is more likely to retain any water from the rider in front gravity can't do its thing..

Secondly, I'd also just check to see if you cables cross over your wind port when turning, again this will mess up the readings. check this by turning the bars..

Peter
Velocomp
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by Velocomp »

With PP pointed up in the air, you are actually reducing the ability of the wind port to remove water from the wind port. Please angle your PP closer to parallel with the road, and do a new cal ride.
John Hamann
spangelsaregreat
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by spangelsaregreat »

Sods law, in todays deluge PowerPod did stop working after about an hour. I guess it depends on how heavy the rain is and type of rain. Today was lots of fine rain which probably gets to the wind port more easily.
TimPrice
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Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:16 pm

Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by TimPrice »

Right, I corrected the angle of my PowerPod by slightly pushing the handlebar mount back, attaching my PowerPod to it and pushing it forwards until it stopped before tightening the thumbscrew. I then ensured that the printed words in red "PowerPod@ and the logo were perfectly horizontal with the ground, I recalibrated the PowerPod in Isaac and did a new out and back ride on a dry day, all appeared to be good.

However, this Saturday whilst out on a training ride with a buddy and whilst it was raining, my power readings were all wrong again, at one point where I was coasting downhill at around 40-45 mph and not peddling, the power reading that was being displayed on my Garmin was above 900 watts and as I've said, I wasn't even peddling! Other times, when on a 13% incline and out of my saddle there were zero watts being displayed or too low to be true.

This is now becoming a nightmare, I bought what I thought was an extremely attractive and affordable alternative to direct force power meters. Alas, this isn't true at all. I have to add a comment to my Strava uploads that asks people not to look at, consider or read too much into the power data because this was recorded on a PowerPod, which in my opinion, isn't fit for purpose.

Please see the attached ride file and if I'm wrong and the erroneous power readings aren't because of water getting into the wind tunnel, what is it now?

Thank you
Attachments
iBike_01_27_2018_0930_61_Miles.ibr
(1.19 MiB) Downloaded 206 times
Velocomp
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by Velocomp »

Riding for long distances in rain can cause the PP wind port to become blocked. A blocked wind port can cause power reading problems.

Rain is not a good thing for any electronic bike component. We've seen lots of reports of DFPMs failing in the rain, so I don't think anyone is immune to this challenge.

Once the wind port is free of water, things will return to normal.
John Hamann
spangelsaregreat
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by spangelsaregreat »

In about nine months of using PowerPod I have only had this twice now and I do ride in the rain a fair bit. I was aware of this weakness and like some of the other limitations of this way of measuring Power I am happy against the cost of a DFPM (ease of movement between bikes, cost).

However, I don't think comparing it to Power Meters that fail due to rain ingress is relevant. Yes any electronic device can fail in wet conditions but that will be due to poor manufacture. In this instance it is a limitation of the design. The PowerPod hasn't failed it is simply not able to function fully in some wet conditions where a DFPM would still function.

On a side note I saw you mention something about an adaptor that the original Newton had where you could attach a tube to it to combat this issue. Did it completely eradicate the issue or just make it less likely to happen? Perhaps a consideration for you in the next version of PowerPod for those of us who reside in damper climates.

Regards
Velocomp
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by Velocomp »

If you ride a lot in the rain, two rides in 9 months isn't 100% success, but it is close.

The comparison seems relevant to me; when PP misbehaves in rain, after it dries out it is back to normal. When a DFPM fails in rain, you have to replace the unit. I've heard reports of a competitive brand having a 40% failure rate.

We are always looking at ways to improve our products. Stay tuned...
John Hamann
spangelsaregreat
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by spangelsaregreat »

John

I am happy with PowerPod so can live with the odd rain affected day, my heart still tells me I am slow!

I was just pointing out that there is a difference between a product failure and a products limitations. Different things.

I am aware of a few friends to have had various issues with DFPMs failing. However I had three faulty PowerPods before I got one that worked. To balance that your service when I raised the issue directly was excellent.

Look forward to your improvements when they come, full Mobile App with ability to do what Isaac does would be good.

Regards
TimPrice
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:16 pm

Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by TimPrice »

To whom it may concern,

Unfortunately, I coulnd’t live the idiosyncrasies that make up PowerPod and have returned it company where I purchased it from via Amazon with an explanation as to why the device isn’t fit for purpose and have now received a full refund.

This wasn’t something that I did lightly, I really wanted to use PP, the technology and the idea seemed right and I wanted it to work but, where I live it rains and it rains a lot, there is no way can be stopping ever few miles or so to clear water out of the wind tunnel and this in itself enough to make the device unviable for me. But, add to that the absolute pain in the kneck you have to go through to upload ride information containing power readings from PP to Strava or TrainingPeaks is just unbearable because of the first 8 minutes of a ride being used to recalibrate.

With any DFPM connected to a Garmin device the process is as simply as turning on your Garmin, riding, ending your ride and saving the data, followed by uploading to Strava, TrainingPeaKS etc. Job done. PowerPod on the other hand requires the use of Isaac to Analyze, Fix route to clean up the wildly exaggerated readings. Also, you need to upload your Garmin data to Garmin, then export it so that it can be merged with the fixed PP readings in Isaac and then exported from Isaac again in a format that allows you to manually upload it to Strava/TrainingPeaks. What an absolute pullava.

Tim
Velocomp
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by Velocomp »

TimPrice wrote:To whom it may concern,

Unfortunately, I coulnd’t live the idiosyncrasies that make up PowerPod and have returned it company where I purchased it from via Amazon with an explanation as to why the device isn’t fit for purpose and have now received a full refund.

Tim
I'm sorry your PP did not work out.

I just finished writing a long email to a customer who is comparing PowerPod readings to his DFPM. He reports his PowerPod reads consistently high.

Because PP records environmental data it is possible to independently check its accuracy, after the ride. I did the analysis and the problem is clear: his DFPM is not calibrated and is giving bogus numbers (24% low). Ride file is attached.

You report your PP was not calibrated for the first 8 minutes of your ride; but you also know you can correct any problems after the ride. This customer's DFPM was wrong for the entire 1 hour ride (and, presumably for all the other rides done with that DFPM). He has no way of knowing he is getting bad numbers, and no way of fixing his training ride.

Fortunately, the customer had a PowerPod on his bike :-)

Good luck to you!
Attachments
PowerPod_08_02_2018_1444_28_km_Ride File_HiDef.ibr
(791.23 KiB) Downloaded 136 times
John Hamann
rotenapple
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by rotenapple »

All my rides have been in rain and sleet so far. On the occasions I have had momentarily odd power readings a gentle tap on the side of the powerpod has settled it down. Presumably the port was collecting water. My Stages version 1 used to fail due to water ingress in similar conditions and eventually failed completely. Apparently waterproof lights have also failed. Roll on summer, though that tends to be pretty wet in the UK as well.
Velocomp
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Re: PowerPod Ride Configuration

Post by Velocomp »

rotenapple wrote:All my rides have been in rain and sleet so far. On the occasions I have had momentarily odd power readings a gentle tap on the side of the powerpod has settled it down. Presumably the port was collecting water. My Stages version 1 used to fail due to water ingress in similar conditions and eventually failed completely. Apparently waterproof lights have also failed. Roll on summer, though that tends to be pretty wet in the UK as well.
Water is not a friend to ANY electronic product!
John Hamann
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