Relay / Re broadcast of sensors

Post Reply
hoosier1981
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:00 pm

Relay / Re broadcast of sensors

Post by hoosier1981 »

I read the Supplement for BLE/ANT+ PowerPod and noticed this section:

"PowerPod BLE receives speed/cadence data in ANT+ format, and transmits power, speed, and cadence data simultaneously in ANT+ and BLE formats."

1. Can the PP also receive ANT+ Heart rate, and if so,
2. Will it transmit Heart Rate along with speed / cadence / power via BLE?
3. Would they then show as separate sensors in the BLE broadcast from the PowerPod, or a single device? (If it works that way)
Velocomp
Velocomp CEO
Posts: 7793
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:43 am

Re: Relay / Re broadcast of sensors

Post by Velocomp »

1. Yes
2. No
3. Single device. All sensor data is combined into a single data packet
John Hamann
hoosier1981
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Relay / Re broadcast of sensors

Post by hoosier1981 »

How do you get the PP to broadcast speed and cadence? I can only get it to transmit power (even tho it does pick up the speed / cadence) - it just doesn't re-broadcast it. The documentation doesn't mention any special settings that I can find.
If I go to 'Edit Profiles' > 'Wireless IDs' I see some non-editable buttons?
Pout Enabled (unsure what this is)
Speed/Cadence Combo Enabled (Not Selected, won't let me select it)
hoosier1981
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Relay / Re broadcast of sensors

Post by hoosier1981 »

*Update*
So I came to realize my cadence sensor battery was low. I got everything working again - Garmin ANT+ Speed, and cadence (separate sensors) - non magnetic.
The PowerPod does pick up both sensors.

However it *only* broadcasts Power and Cadence (through both BLE or ANT+). I can't get it to broadcast speed. (I've actually never heard of another Power Meter that broadcasts speed so I'm wondering if it's a limitation on what devices can pick up in a single signal?) I was only able to test with a Garmin Edge 1030 thru BLE and ANT+, as well as a BLE Android running IPbike.
Is this normal, or was there a mis-print in the BLE supplement? Meaning it doesn't actually re-broadcast the speed sensor? (I was hoping to consolidate everything into a single BLE signal). However if anyone can confirm that's not possible I'll probably look into an ANT+ adapter for my phone. Reason being, I was going to ditch the Garmin Edge computer and use an old smart phone (I have several that I don't care about being destroyed).

If it matters, I was doing this test in a bike stand with the PP on the floor (using a copied profile) keeping the same angle, so speed did save in the .ibr file. The only other thing I can think of is if the accelerometer needs to be engaged for speed to transmit outbound. (The weather outside is garbage or I'd try it out).
Velocomp
Velocomp CEO
Posts: 7793
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:43 am

Re: Relay / Re broadcast of sensors

Post by Velocomp »

hoosier1981 wrote:*Update*
So I came to realize my cadence sensor battery was low. I got everything working again - Garmin ANT+ Speed, and cadence (separate sensors) - non magnetic.
The PowerPod does pick up both sensors.

However it *only* broadcasts Power and Cadence (through both BLE or ANT+). I can't get it to broadcast speed. (I've actually never heard of another Power Meter that broadcasts speed so I'm wondering if it's a limitation on what devices can pick up in a single signal?) I was only able to test with a Garmin Edge 1030 thru BLE and ANT+, as well as a BLE Android running IPbike.
PPBLE receives ANT+ speed and cadence data, and broadcasts, in BLE format only, speed and power and cadence. These are combined in a single packet, according to BLE spec. It most definitely works; we have tested this on our BLE iPhone and BLE Android phone using PowerHouse app, Wahoo Fitness, and several others.
John Hamann
nicholp1
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:46 pm

Re: Relay / Re broadcast of sensors

Post by nicholp1 »

The may be a way the the BLE has been implemented on the head unit..

I have exactly the same issue on a Polar V650 see below for description:

viewtopic.php?f=93&t=4452&p=23674&hilit ... 650#p23674

I've turned the GPS off but the head unit is still not showing speed rebroadcast from the PowerPod.. In the main this is not a issue as the head unit will use GPS for speed but on the Polar it needs real speed data not GPS to calculate the VAM data.

As I said in the other post the PowerPod is working fine and capturing the speed cadence and Hr
hoosier1981
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Relay / Re broadcast of sensors

Post by hoosier1981 »

Thanks for confirming. There must be a limitation in the way the Garmin is picking the signal up.
nicholp1
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:46 pm

Re: Relay / Re broadcast of sensors

Post by nicholp1 »

hoosier1981 you mention Garmin and unless I'm very much mistaken all Garmin head unit use ANT+ not BLE.

The difference between ANT and BLE is that ANT+ supports one to many pairings and BLE doesn't. This means that you can pair your ANT+ head unit to the ANT speed and cadence sensors directly at the same time the Power Pod can also pair to those same sensors.

If you were using a BLE head unit you would pair it to the PowerPod and receive power, speed cadence via a single stream.

PowerPod ANT/BLE only transmits Power via ANT and power, speed cadence via BLE as a single stream.
hoosier1981
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Relay / Re broadcast of sensors

Post by hoosier1981 »

nicholp1 wrote:hoosier1981 you mention Garmin and unless I'm very much mistaken all Garmin head unit use ANT+ not BLE.
The difference between ANT and BLE is that ANT+ supports one to many pairings and BLE doesn't. This means that you can pair your ANT+ head unit to the ANT speed and cadence sensors directly at the same time the Power Pod can also pair to those same sensors.
If you were using a BLE head unit you would pair it to the PowerPod and receive power, speed cadence via a single stream.
PowerPod ANT/BLE only transmits Power via ANT and power, speed cadence via BLE as a single stream.
I'm using the Garmin Edge 1030 - this will actually receive ANT+ and BLE. I did manage to pick up the PP signal and include Power/Cadence with both ANT+ and BLE. Since the PP is obviously receiving the speed data, there must be some difference with the way the Garmin is picking the data up (perhaps it doesn't look for speed in a power-related signal). Not a big deal, I was just hoping to limit the huge # of sensors in my Garmin pool at this point. I'd be curious if anyone else got a Garmin to pick up speed.
Interesting enough, I did some reading on ANT+ vs BLE and it seems that ANT+ offers a lot of cycling dynamics that BLE won't do yet (not for PP but for devices that support that sort of thing). Between that, and Bluetooth crashing my Garmin non-stop I'll just go with ANT+ for now and pick things up separately. I'll reserve BLE for any phone apps.
Post Reply