racerfern wrote:
I have never exported an ibr file to csv without merging the gps data so this is the first time I'm looking it at this way. Very interesting. I assume you are in Australia with a UTC of +10 (Cell T4). However you have to know that the ibike clock is set correctly. I still think cadence matching is a better way but some allowance needs to be made for poor GPS info.
Regardless, I can't complain too much, hundreds of rides and one miscue? I'm happy.
Yes, from Australia.
Cadence would work but not all GPS devices record cadence. You can always work out speed from the recorded data.
Happened again today on a group ride. Uploaded the iBIke file and it did not group with the others. Everyone else that uploaded their Garmin files is grouped together.
It's not the iBike time - it is correct. Same time as my computer and that synchs with Internet time.
We stopped twice but they were fairly short stops and there have been multiple group rides (ones where we've stopped and ones where I've gotten separated for a while, etc.) that I've uploaded where they did match up.
Please upload the original iBike file along with the file that has the GPS data. Also please provide a Strava link to the others that rode with you.
As an FYI here's a link to the ride I did today. I merged in Isaac and exported as a CSV. Even though I started in a totally different spot, rode to the start it matched me up with a rider that started right near the start and it matched me up with another rider that did not do the last part of the ride. http://app.strava.com/activities/59084079. I'm not bragging, I'm saying that I think at the Strava end it seems to do a good job. Let's see your data and we'll try to get it figured out.
This guy left his house at about the same time I left mine and we live similar distances from the meeting place yet he is grouped with the others.
I also see that my Garmin and iBike say that the start times are essentially the same (based on what I see in the Garmin Training center and Isaac - Isaac says 5:03am and the Garmin Training Center says 5:02:56am
I also see that Strava linked up all these people even though the start times are all over the place.
So why not me?
Please don't spend tons of time messing with the files to get it right I'm not going to upload anything else to Strava - I just want to know why and would really like it this didn't happen.
Why does your ride say 02/16/2013 even though it was done today.
Do you have your Garmin set to forced one second recording? I have a 705 that saves as TCX so I don't know the inner workings of your Garmin. Is it a 500?
This might be important, when I try to import the FIT file into Golden Cheetah I get a warning that lap 1 has an invalid start time. Any ideas? BTW, I get the same warning from the FIT file of 05/19 that I previously looked at. Hmmm.
So I imported the FIT file into SportTracks, then exported as a TCX. I merged the TCX in Isaac, saved it and I am attaching it here. Open it and export as a CSV and upload to Strava , WHEW! Let me know if that works by matching up with the other riders.
BTW, I would like you to upload 1 or 2 FIT files that do NOT have the problem of matching up with other riders. I want to import them into GC and see if I get the invalid lap error message.
You can also email me directly at fernando.j.maldonado at gmail.com
EDIT* Do you have the latest FW in the Garmin and have you considered do a hard reset on the Garmin.?
Yes, I have the most current firmware for the Garmin 500 - v3.2 (April 2013)
Yes the Garmin is set to record every second.
I sent you two Garmin FIT files that did group the ride with other riders when uploaded to Strava.
No, I haven't thought about a hard reset. Since I've never done it before I would need to look at what the repercussions of doing that are - e.g what setup will I need to do to restore all bikes and other settings, etc.
I just tried to import the two FIT files into Golden Cheetah and my experience was that the one from Thursday said there was an error and the one from today did not.
When trying to upload to Strava it says that the file is a duplicate. I really don't want to delete the ride at this time for a few reasons (there are all the achievements that don't seem to register if you upload a file after you've already been awarded them and there is at least one comment in there where I am passing along information to someone for the purposes of connecting to ride and I don't know if he's gotten that info yet).
Based on past experience I'm pretty sure that it would probably work.
So the question is what did you do to make it work / why didn't the original upload work?
racerfern wrote:So I imported the FIT file into SportTracks, then exported as a TCX. I merged the TCX in Isaac, saved it and I am attaching it here. Open it and export as a CSV and upload to Strava , WHEW! Let me know if that works by matching up with the other riders.
I answered previously, but the same basic method used by others. Import the FIT file, then export as TCX.
Live with what you have and I recommend you do some searching or ask some questions on the Garmin Forums.
I will poke around on the Garmin forums and I will submit another ticket to the Strava folks to see if they can help figure out what is going on but ...
In lieu of uploading the file that you massaged (since it is seen as a duplicate) I uploaded the FIT file which is not seen as a duplicate and it does indeed group all the riders.
I'll leave it here for now since the Strava folks will most likely want to see it too.
I have done a hard reset on my Garmin.
Thanks for all your assistance. As always it is much appreciated!! I sure would like to know why this happens and eliminate it once and for all though!
It does look like the iBike version of the ride does have different start times for your segments - that is again what is causing the problem. The only thing I can think of is your time settings on your phone; did we already discuss if your iPhone was using network or manual time of day?
See the attached screenshot to see the start times of the segment efforts of both activities. Worth noticing is that the elapsed time of both rides is 3 minutes different - 04:39:06 for your Garmin and 04:42:21 for your iBike.
The different start times makes no sense since it works most of the time and I know that my Garmin (not iPhone or Android) and my iBike are synced to my computer which is synced to Internet time.
Since it works most of the time the $10000,00 question is what causes the difference when things don't sync?
Can Garmin auto pause have anything to do with it?
I'll sure pass this along to the iBike folks and see if they have any ideas.
I'll let you know what they say.
So if I make a ride private it doesn't add to my mileage, etc.?
I'm not sure if auto-pause would have anything to do with it; maybe you could try changing that setting and see what happens? Making a ride private makes it so that it won't count for your YTD stats, challenges, etc.
He also attached a screen shot of his comparison of the two files (I tried to attach it so it would display but it was too big [pixel x pixel too big, not file size] so I zipped it.
I commented on the comparison and said
Mat,
I see what you're saying about the times BUT ... if you look at all times up til that point they all match up. This would indicate that the times between the two devices are in sync up until that point.
So what makes them get out of sync?
I do believe that this is the first segment after the group stopped at a QT store for a break and to fill up bottles / use the restroom. I think that the stopping / break has something to do with it.
Just need to figure out what.
Again, I'm passing this along to the iBike folks. We've definitely had conversations about this happening after stops.
So ... as already stated the $10,000.00 question why do the Garmin and the iBike get out of sync? They were obviously in sync until the stop at the QT store.
It sure would be nice to get this solved / fixed ....
I think the issue is the warning that I posted previously about an invalid lap time in the Garmin 500 file that gets repaired when converting to TCX. This may be a 500 bug that the Garmin forums should have info on since you certainly can't be the only person with this issue.
I think this another example of a bug in the merge program in Isaac that I've mentioned before and which I've experienced many times when merging Garmin Edge 705 TCX data.
I took the .IBR and .FIT files and converted to CVS then with a bit of extra calculation graphed speed against elapsed time (not ride time) for each file
Between 13:40 and 13:46 UTC time (around 1h40m into the ride - 6000 seconds) you stopped for around 6 minutes and at that point Isaac's merge program gets upset and goes backwards in time. It does something similar on a smaller scale near the start of the file. I suspect it's the way it matches the files by seeking out similar speed profiles.
It might also be something to do with laps in the Garmin file but hard to tell without the original unmerged .IBR file to check
Strava problem.png (137.38 KiB) Viewed 19932 times
IMO even though there may be a problem in merging some files, I think the root cause is the FIT file. If you convert the FIT to a TCX the issue goes away because the converting software fixes the error in the FIT file. AFA not finding other rides on Strava it may be that Strava has to make some adjustments since it appears Garmin has no interest in fixing the issue.
You may be right about that but I believe that you're talking about using the SportTacks software. AFAIC there are at least two issues with that approach:
1. SportTracks is not free software
2. That is an additional step in the merge process. An additional step that I'd rather not have to perform.
One more thought since I don't have SportTracks. It is possible to export to a TCX file from the Garmin Training Center program (free) but I do not know that this fixes the problem AND it is an additional step that I'd rather not have to perform.
Fernando - Just to be sure ... any / all of the work / analysis that you do pertaining to this is greatly appreciated!
KenS - was that my file that you're referring to? If so, isn't it possible to revert to the Original file download? From the Analyze menu ... Revert to Original Download.
I don't know if that will give you what you're looking for or not, just a thought / suggestion.
I think that the bottom line here is that there is an issue with the Isaac merging of GPS data when you stop on a ride. Something between the Garmin and the iBike get out of sync and the resulting upload to Strava does not group you with the others that you rode with while the upload of the Garmin FIT file does group you.
With that said it would be great if Isaac could be updated to address the issue that KenS has documented.
You don't have to use SportTracks to convert from FIT to another format there are other ways. If you were to use SportTracks it would allow you to use it along with two plugins for free. Beyond two plugins you would have to pay.
I took your file from June 8 and imported into Golden Cheetah after trying the file repair utility we saw on the Garmin forum. Golden Cheetah 3.0 imports the file without issue although Golden Cheetah 2.1 does complain about an invalid lap time but then fixes the isse. Garmin Connect, SportTracks and Strava all accept the file. So it appears all these programs/websites have made allowances for what is essentially an error in the Garmin format. FWIW the file repair tool did remove the error from the FIT file but you would have to pay for that also.
At some point hopefully Isaac will also be able to handle this Garmin error.
Is there a reason to upload the iBike file instead of the Garmin file to Strava?
Data Summary from the Garmin upload 83.5mi Distance 1,151ft Elevation (?)
04:04:56 Moving Time
2,377 Calories
170W Weighted Avg Power
259 Training Load
AVG MAX
Temperature 88°F --
Speed 20.5mi/h 37.8mi/h
Cadence 87 --
Heartrate 144bpm 179bpm
Power 145W 1,178W Elapsed Time 04:39:06
Data Summary from the iBIke upload 83.7mi Distance 1,456ft Elevation (?)
04:04:28 Moving Time
2,404 Calories
169W Weighted Avg Power
258 Training Load
AVG MAX
Speed 20.5mi/h 37.6mi/h
Cadence 89 --
Heartrate 144bpm 179bpm
Power 147W 1,320W Elapsed Time 04:42:21
While there are a few differences they seem pretty darn close. The only one that has a fairly significant difference is the elevation.
So what, if any, benefits are there to uploading the iBike file with the Garmin data merged instead of just uploading the Garmin file?
As long as you don't have any issues collecting power data on the ride, the 500 FIT file will work just fine. IF you happen to see a big change post analysis for whatever reason then you would want the iBike data. That said, it's not like you're using Strava for detailed analysis so the FIT file should work just fine 99% of the time.
racerfern wrote:As long as you don't have any issues collecting power data on the ride, the 500 FIT file will work just fine. IF you happen to see a big change post analysis for whatever reason then you would want the iBike data. That said, it's not like you're using Strava for detailed analysis so the FIT file should work just fine 99% of the time.
Actually the "dedicated" Strava competitive enthusiast will upload all variations and choose the ride which yields the best in Crowns, Cups, and Ribbons. Because of timing differences on the one second trackpoints a merge of the .fit with the .ibr may throw Strava Segments into the favor of the Newton vs the Edge. Then merely Delete the unwanted uploads. If you upload all variants at the same time, then Strava will not kick out the duplicates
