OK, so I have done my fitness test (3.41 W/kg - Level 4) and I am working on my intervals to try and raise Fitness Level. But, I was wondering what maximum, short term, power level should I be able to generate. Clicking the average/maximum button on my iBike after a typical 60 to 90 minute fast ride (no intervals) gives me a value around 580W. This value sounds a bit pathetic to me, when the pros talk of bursts of 1000 to 1200+ W. Should I be bothered about this value at all? Or, will it increase as I work on the interval training without trying to up my max power?
What maximum levels do other members generate?
Maximum Power Level
Re: Maximum Power Level
I would guess that the average pro who goes out for a fast 60-90 min ride doesn't have any readings as high as 580W... unless he is practicing short intervals.
Re: Maximum Power Level
If you want to know your maximum power at 5 seconds, 1 min, 5 min etc, you should test yourself along the same lines as the 20 min fitness test.
As your threshold power increases your 5 min power should go up to a certain degree.
Ideally you should do specific intervals to raise your short period power, it will help you climb, recover quicker and respond to accelerations. There is a lot of discussion on the wattage forum about intervals, just ignore the anti-iBike diatribes. Sometimes I think owning a SRM etc is more important to some of them than helping with advice.
Have a go at racing to see what others are capable of. You'll find racing is a great motivation to keep training and improving.
As your threshold power increases your 5 min power should go up to a certain degree.
Ideally you should do specific intervals to raise your short period power, it will help you climb, recover quicker and respond to accelerations. There is a lot of discussion on the wattage forum about intervals, just ignore the anti-iBike diatribes. Sometimes I think owning a SRM etc is more important to some of them than helping with advice.
Have a go at racing to see what others are capable of. You'll find racing is a great motivation to keep training and improving.
Re: Maximum Power Level
If I'm not specifically doing intervals I'm generally in the 500-600 range although I tend to purposely hold back and stay in my training zone for a particular ride. If I'm with some friends out for a hammerfest type of ride, I'll almost hit 1000w max, I'm level 4 also. But don't be impressed or depressed by the max number. Look for the max for 5 seconds to get a better idea of sustainable max. Also note that the energy burned to create that type of wattage will carry you quite a distance at 250w so don't worry unless sprints is your focus. Rumor control has it that someone like Mark Cavendish will hit 2000-2400w for the sprint at the end of a long stage. But remember he used to get dropped big time on any real climbs.prs wrote:OK, so I have done my fitness test (3.41 W/kg - Level 4) and I am working on my intervals to try and raise Fitness Level. But, I was wondering what maximum, short term, power level should I be able to generate. Clicking the average/maximum button on my iBike after a typical 60 to 90 minute fast ride (no intervals) gives me a value around 580W. This value sounds a bit pathetic to me, when the pros talk of bursts of 1000 to 1200+ W. Should I be bothered about this value at all? Or, will it increase as I work on the interval training without trying to up my max power?
What maximum levels do other members generate?
Like MdC said, if you want to know, then test for it and train for it. My buddy easily hits 1400-1600w however he can't ride much over 50 miles and I'm still going strong at 100miles. It's different things to different people.
Fernando
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lorduintah
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Re: Maximum Power Level
On some of the riders in last year's TDF - I think I recall hearing average watts around 300. Now there is a lot of drafting going on which helps out a lot to lower needed power, but I also think most of them can blast well above 1000 watts. The best short spurt I've personally hit was 715 watts = at 63 I am not too concerned about ever seeing 1000. All I know is that it gets easier to see 300 (for longer periods of time) every week I ride.
Tom
Tom
Re: Maximum Power Level
I don't think the maximum power you achieved for short durations-1 and 5 bursts is really a number for you to worry about unless you plan on racing. These short term bursts of power are necessary where for example when you are: a track racer, joining a break away group off the front of the peleton, or sprinting to the finish line-to name but a few. I myself do not favour sprinting and therefore I track only 10, 20, 60 minute mean maximal power-that is sustained power output over these durations, and increasing them through FTP intervals. However, as a result of this targeting, I can punch out 1203 watts in a short sprint, if need be. Cavendish, Renshaw, Boonen and Thor Hushovds put out about 1800-1900 watts in a sprint finish. Theo Bos, about 2100 watts
Nik
Nik
Re: Maximum Power Level
In my experience the iBike has been slightly underestimating in the max power range. I did a ride with a DFPM recently and maxed at 1345 watts with the powertap, but the iBike would have only shown 1275 with the calibrated profile. I don't find max numbers as useful for predicting race performance as 30s interval power, that's what makes or breaks you when a selection is made.
Re: Maximum Power Level
1345 / 1275 = 1.055; that is, there is a 5.5% difference between the two instantaneous readings. The PT and the iBike both have rated accuracies of +/- 2%, so it's entirely likely that both are reading within range for this number. Remember, too, that when the reading is taken in time is important; small differences in the exact time of the data point recording could result in a measurement difference, particularly when comparing instantaneous readings.
It is more meaningful to compare average numbers over a period of time: 5 seconds is the shortest I would go, and 10 seconds is better.
It is more meaningful to compare average numbers over a period of time: 5 seconds is the shortest I would go, and 10 seconds is better.
John Hamann
Re: Maximum Power Level
Thanks for the input guys.
I obviously am a bit of a wimp, Tom has 11 years on me and hits 715W!
I don't race so maximum power numbers only affect my ego (or lack of it).
My plan is to work some short term power intervals (storm up some little hills, etc) into my workouts and see if I can increase long term power and maximum power. If I ever make a 1000W I will post a self congratulatory message on the site.
Paul
I obviously am a bit of a wimp, Tom has 11 years on me and hits 715W!
I don't race so maximum power numbers only affect my ego (or lack of it).
My plan is to work some short term power intervals (storm up some little hills, etc) into my workouts and see if I can increase long term power and maximum power. If I ever make a 1000W I will post a self congratulatory message on the site.
Paul
Re: Maximum Power Level
Definitely keep us appraised on your progress. It will be interesting to see if it really does take a rocket scientist to decipher all this training stuff. 
Fernando
Re: Maximum Power Level
There's some good stuff in here, but concerning the top pros. . .some of the numbers can be a bit off.
In road racing, sprinting is more about timing and momentum. It's not always the person with the highest watts that wins. When you see Cavendish sprinting at the end of a tour stage you have to look at what happens in the 10K before the final sprint. His team was always on the front and he had an easy ride to get to the finish. If the sprinter is on a teammate's wheel coming into the finish it's considered bad sportsmanship to try and take that wheel from him.
So what happens is you have every other sprinter in the race trying to get onto Cavendish's wheel. They are all fighting amongst each other, and he gets to conserve energy because his teammates are doing the work. In the last 5K he is saving a ton more energy than every other sprinter, and this is why he is able to make it look easy winning.
Also, since the speeds are already high when the sprint starts (around 38mph before starting the sprint), the max watts aren't that high. When you have a track racer who accelerates from a slow speed, then you will see 2000+ watt sprints, but for a road racer it's very possible to win a sprint in a major race putting out less than 1400 watts.
FWIW, in the Southeast cycling scene I have developed into one of the better sprinters and I usually win quite a few field sprints per year, but my max watts on a great day are right around 1200 watts. I've never in my life hit 1250. Timing and momentum are much more important.
In road racing, sprinting is more about timing and momentum. It's not always the person with the highest watts that wins. When you see Cavendish sprinting at the end of a tour stage you have to look at what happens in the 10K before the final sprint. His team was always on the front and he had an easy ride to get to the finish. If the sprinter is on a teammate's wheel coming into the finish it's considered bad sportsmanship to try and take that wheel from him.
So what happens is you have every other sprinter in the race trying to get onto Cavendish's wheel. They are all fighting amongst each other, and he gets to conserve energy because his teammates are doing the work. In the last 5K he is saving a ton more energy than every other sprinter, and this is why he is able to make it look easy winning.
Also, since the speeds are already high when the sprint starts (around 38mph before starting the sprint), the max watts aren't that high. When you have a track racer who accelerates from a slow speed, then you will see 2000+ watt sprints, but for a road racer it's very possible to win a sprint in a major race putting out less than 1400 watts.
FWIW, in the Southeast cycling scene I have developed into one of the better sprinters and I usually win quite a few field sprints per year, but my max watts on a great day are right around 1200 watts. I've never in my life hit 1250. Timing and momentum are much more important.
Boyd Johnson
http://www.boydcycling.com - high performance carbon wheels and accessories
http://www.boydcycling.com - high performance carbon wheels and accessories
Re: Maximum Power Level
Yeah, I did somewhat generalise.
Nik
Nik
Re: Maximum Power Level
!!!GEEZER WARNING!!!
Now, I am not calling anyone here a geezer and I am not exactly admitting to being one.
But....
I was doing great a few years back until I hit that dog (never race a dog, they are too unpredictable). Months later I was facing the uphill battle to come back (up to speed?).
I haven't gotten there yet but before this winters snows, I was doing best since the dog.
Well, I forgot to mention the secret weapon for geezers. ScienceDaily.com had a report with a title that went something like "Common Sports Supplement REALLY Helps the Elderly"! (emphasis mine)
So I started taking beta-Alanine along with creatin. I started the beta-Alanine last July and it helps, no doubt. The explanation was that the body's production of beta-Alanine falls off as you get 'older', whatever that means - no curve was provided.
Now the point of the warning, seems I lost enough of something during December and January, and hitting some kind of slump regarding the trainer that I hurt myself doing hi intensity intervals just a few rides into back on the road.
My experience as a soon to be geezer is that a little extra time base building and increasing max power on intervals in steps is probably a wise thing.
Oh, beta-Alanine really helps me at 63
.
Russ
Now, I am not calling anyone here a geezer and I am not exactly admitting to being one.
But....
I was doing great a few years back until I hit that dog (never race a dog, they are too unpredictable). Months later I was facing the uphill battle to come back (up to speed?).
I haven't gotten there yet but before this winters snows, I was doing best since the dog.
Well, I forgot to mention the secret weapon for geezers. ScienceDaily.com had a report with a title that went something like "Common Sports Supplement REALLY Helps the Elderly"! (emphasis mine)
So I started taking beta-Alanine along with creatin. I started the beta-Alanine last July and it helps, no doubt. The explanation was that the body's production of beta-Alanine falls off as you get 'older', whatever that means - no curve was provided.
Now the point of the warning, seems I lost enough of something during December and January, and hitting some kind of slump regarding the trainer that I hurt myself doing hi intensity intervals just a few rides into back on the road.
My experience as a soon to be geezer is that a little extra time base building and increasing max power on intervals in steps is probably a wise thing.
Oh, beta-Alanine really helps me at 63
.Russ
Re: Maximum Power Level
So How Did The iBike Help Me After I Hurt Myself?
During my ride yesterday, I thought I am doing better and it is partially because of the iBike,
I should put an update about that!
Basically, the injury was to the ligaments behind my right knee from the hams and all. Inflammation and some stretching, I think. Since I am too hardheaded to go to the doctor about it, that is a self diagnosis.
After the weather enforced winter break and, I think, coming back to hard and probably an asymmetry to my peddling (lazy left leg) my intervals were too much too soon.
So after realizing my problem, I starting riding and experimenting with 'safe' power levels determined by levels that did not aggravate. Also I quickly found that limiting my upstroke to only lifting the weight of my upstroke leg for awhile was best. So the iBike allowed me to accomplish these limits with assurance. Overtime I experimented with small exertions, one too large resulted in a pulling sensation above the behind the knee. I quickly let off but noted the power level at near or just below 400 watts. This signaled another week of so of no intervals, then I found 250, 275, 300 ----- yesterday I carelessly hit 701 and it has only resulted in a slight increase in stiffness, sensitivity. But tells me to lay well below that for awhile longer.
Bottom line, I can ride and get great LSR's and more while recovering and feel safe enough about it because of the iBike!
Russ
During my ride yesterday, I thought I am doing better and it is partially because of the iBike,
I should put an update about that!
Basically, the injury was to the ligaments behind my right knee from the hams and all. Inflammation and some stretching, I think. Since I am too hardheaded to go to the doctor about it, that is a self diagnosis.
After the weather enforced winter break and, I think, coming back to hard and probably an asymmetry to my peddling (lazy left leg) my intervals were too much too soon.
So after realizing my problem, I starting riding and experimenting with 'safe' power levels determined by levels that did not aggravate. Also I quickly found that limiting my upstroke to only lifting the weight of my upstroke leg for awhile was best. So the iBike allowed me to accomplish these limits with assurance. Overtime I experimented with small exertions, one too large resulted in a pulling sensation above the behind the knee. I quickly let off but noted the power level at near or just below 400 watts. This signaled another week of so of no intervals, then I found 250, 275, 300 ----- yesterday I carelessly hit 701 and it has only resulted in a slight increase in stiffness, sensitivity. But tells me to lay well below that for awhile longer.
Bottom line, I can ride and get great LSR's and more while recovering and feel safe enough about it because of the iBike!
Russ
Re: Maximum Power Level
Hi guys, new to the forum, but I do think I need to spread some information. If you guys insist on comparing yourselves to the pros, at least compare it to reliable data. The powermeter, has been as should always be, about comparing your own data to your own, and tracking progress over a minimum of 4 weeks after performing well planned FTP (functional threshold power) improving intervals. Comparing your max reading to anyone else's, is quite frankly as productive as comparing max heartrates. BTW, 746 watts = 1hp. I wonder how many us truly believe even the pros can match a horse's typical cruising speed (the rating of 1hp is not the maximum power a horse can generate, BTW)? I personally can generate 850+ watts in a sprint & blow away just about everyone I ride with (racers and all), but when I go uphill where the effort is sustained, I can only hold about 220 watts that can be held for 20 minutes, which indeed, is quite pathetic compared to racers, & getting dropped by them is the proof of this inadequacy.
@prs: I'm curious about your 3.41 W/kg fitness result; based on the document in the 1st link below, that number puts you as an average young Cat5 racer (this W/kg can be held for 5 mins). Do you race or train with racers? I'm just wondering how realistic the ibike fitness test is (or the accuracy for that matter) since I have a hard time believing these numbers from a recreational rider. BTW, I own a Powertap and the software calculates my sustained power ratio is about 2.2 W/kg, which is quite reasonable when I compare to the chart.
Scroll down to page 15 of this pdf:
http://www.bicyclepowermeters.com/Ergom ... nglish.pdf
and do a search for "watts" in this article:
http://blog.trainingpeaks.com/2008/09/v ... -data.html
Cheers
Chris
@prs: I'm curious about your 3.41 W/kg fitness result; based on the document in the 1st link below, that number puts you as an average young Cat5 racer (this W/kg can be held for 5 mins). Do you race or train with racers? I'm just wondering how realistic the ibike fitness test is (or the accuracy for that matter) since I have a hard time believing these numbers from a recreational rider. BTW, I own a Powertap and the software calculates my sustained power ratio is about 2.2 W/kg, which is quite reasonable when I compare to the chart.
Scroll down to page 15 of this pdf:
http://www.bicyclepowermeters.com/Ergom ... nglish.pdf
and do a search for "watts" in this article:
http://blog.trainingpeaks.com/2008/09/v ... -data.html
Cheers
Chris
Re: Maximum Power Level
"I do think I need to spread some information. If you guys insist on comparing yourselves to the pros, at least compare it to reliable data"
Umm, no not really, we here are quite aware of training with a power meter. I think you have misread the posts. We were trying to explain to a poster in a non technical manner why improving 1, 5, 10 second power output is not necessary in his training regime unless he planned to improve his sprinting ability . Further to this Coach Boyd and others explained how/why a high power output at these durations would be useful in a race. Examples were then given of the power output of various pro riders. Several of us then chimed in on our power output on short sprints, but no amateur/pro comparisons were intended-we know that would be an exercise in futility.
Nik
Umm, no not really, we here are quite aware of training with a power meter. I think you have misread the posts. We were trying to explain to a poster in a non technical manner why improving 1, 5, 10 second power output is not necessary in his training regime unless he planned to improve his sprinting ability . Further to this Coach Boyd and others explained how/why a high power output at these durations would be useful in a race. Examples were then given of the power output of various pro riders. Several of us then chimed in on our power output on short sprints, but no amateur/pro comparisons were intended-we know that would be an exercise in futility.
Nik
Re: Maximum Power Level
Hi Nik! Thx for the correction, fair enough. I guess some of my subconscious annoyance of being asked, "what's your max power" spilled over. Sorry. I keep telling them even though my max numbers are very impressive, I'd give 100 of those watts for 50 more at LT. I frequently offer to switch 50% of my fast twitch for 20% of their slow twitch, but haven't had any takers... 
I guess we always want what we can't have!
But my question to prs I'd still like to extend out to anyone else, since I almost bought the ibike for that very reason, the fitness test, as well as for the data analysis for time drafting vs pulling. I wound up going with a used Powertap with built wheel for $500 since it was tried & true (pun intended). Maybe someone (obviously obsessed with power reading or lots of $$$ laying around) with both meters can say how realistic the W/kg calc is.
Thanks!
Chris
I guess we always want what we can't have!But my question to prs I'd still like to extend out to anyone else, since I almost bought the ibike for that very reason, the fitness test, as well as for the data analysis for time drafting vs pulling. I wound up going with a used Powertap with built wheel for $500 since it was tried & true (pun intended). Maybe someone (obviously obsessed with power reading or lots of $$$ laying around) with both meters can say how realistic the W/kg calc is.
Thanks!
Chris
Re: Maximum Power Level
Hi Chris,
The W/kg was measured in the 20 min iBike fitness test. If you accept that the fact iBike gives reasonable power readings, when setup correctly, (Coach Boyd gave the OK on my set up data), and that I can read a bathroom scale (76 kg), then the W/kg is good number!
By the way, I don't race and am hardly a junior at 52 years old.
My driver to post the original question was that I can keep 240-260 W for a reasonable length of time but, I didn't seem to be able to generate the BIG Watts. I wanted to know if this was typical or, was I really a wuss!
I am using the iBike workouts and trying some "power sprints" but I haven't seen Watts greater than my new high of 800 yet!
Cheers - Paul
The W/kg was measured in the 20 min iBike fitness test. If you accept that the fact iBike gives reasonable power readings, when setup correctly, (Coach Boyd gave the OK on my set up data), and that I can read a bathroom scale (76 kg), then the W/kg is good number!
By the way, I don't race and am hardly a junior at 52 years old.
My driver to post the original question was that I can keep 240-260 W for a reasonable length of time but, I didn't seem to be able to generate the BIG Watts. I wanted to know if this was typical or, was I really a wuss!
I am using the iBike workouts and trying some "power sprints" but I haven't seen Watts greater than my new high of 800 yet!
Cheers - Paul
Re: Maximum Power Level
Hey Paul, thx for the reply. Especially since you don't race (officially) I wouldn't be concerned with top end speed (even though the chicks dig it 
). Just work on your sustained power & you'll have plenty of praise (envy) from the guys struggling to stay on your wheel!
Check this out: I'm only 136lbs, 5' 5" but I rocket past 6'+ 200lb guys on anything less than 1% grade, much to their shock!I've once been accused of being a moped. Problem is I'm blessed (cursed) with waaay too many fast twitch muscles so those same 200lbs guys usually drop me on climbs as I gasp for air. I always joke about switching to track, as there's no hills on a velodrome! I hear the body actually changes to > percentage of slow twitch as we age. I'm 40 & I'm still eagerly awaiting the change...
Keep the pedals turning!
Chris
). Just work on your sustained power & you'll have plenty of praise (envy) from the guys struggling to stay on your wheel! Check this out: I'm only 136lbs, 5' 5" but I rocket past 6'+ 200lb guys on anything less than 1% grade, much to their shock!I've once been accused of being a moped. Problem is I'm blessed (cursed) with waaay too many fast twitch muscles so those same 200lbs guys usually drop me on climbs as I gasp for air. I always joke about switching to track, as there's no hills on a velodrome! I hear the body actually changes to > percentage of slow twitch as we age. I'm 40 & I'm still eagerly awaiting the change...
Keep the pedals turning!
Chris